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Old 02-17-2021, 04:47 PM
 
1,764 posts, read 1,028,472 times
Reputation: 1943

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The reason, why there has been a constant stream of migrants flooding the US, was due to the hell the US help with their interventions in Central America.

If you don't like refuges coming to your country, then your country should stop creating the conditions which result in the migrants fleeing their homeland in the first place.

The United States has intervened with military forces 12 times in Latin America in this century. Many of these invasions were led by Brigadier General Smedley Butler. In his memoirs “1933,” he says: “I helped make Mexico safe for American Oil interests. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place. For the National City Bank, boys to collect revenue in. I helped pacify Nicaragua for the international banking House of Brown Brothers. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for the American sugar interests. I helped make Honduras right for American fruit companies.”https://theintercept.com/2018/11/28/...ntral-america/

That was declared in the 1930s, not much has changed since then.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ybs3Zn086a0[/url] What's Causing the Central American Migration Crisis?


Back in the 1980s, Central America was a hot spot. President Reagan used inflated claims about communism triumphing there and creeping across our southern border to justify aiding and arming death squads in El Salvador and backing the right-wing government.

The civil war against left-wing rebels claimed the lives of more than 80,000 people. Many of the murdered were innocent, working-class civilians who supported neither the soldiers nor the guerrillas.

The United States is still a source of instability in El Salvador in two ways.

First, it has deported thousands of inmates who had been imprisoned for gang-related issues. The jails in El Salvador do not have capacity to hold the never-ending numbers of inmates deported by the United States, so now many of these criminals roam the streets.

Second, the demand for illegal drugs in the United States fuels the gangs in El Salvador.

So when Republican presidential candidate Newt Gingrich recently denounced the Salvadoran MS-13 gang, he was instilling fear but not offering solutions to help El Salvador fight the crime and violence.


How about doing a google search on "The School of the Americas"?

https://progressive.org/op-eds/unite...y-el-salvador/
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Old 02-17-2021, 06:15 PM
 
7,343 posts, read 4,373,837 times
Reputation: 7659
2012 ? Newt's recent run for president?

The US is better than every ****hole south of us. That's why they come here.

Blame it on whatever you want. It matters not.
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Old 02-17-2021, 06:22 PM
 
126 posts, read 108,697 times
Reputation: 132
Meh. Don't commit crimes if you were lucky enough to get in the US.

East Asian, Indian: Study hard, go to Ivy League school, work at fortune 500 company.

These people: drop out of school, join gang, do felony and get kicked from the country.

See the difference?

The US did make a mistake though: allowing troublemakers in in the first place. We need real people here, not gang members.
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Old 02-17-2021, 06:53 PM
 
1,764 posts, read 1,028,472 times
Reputation: 1943
Quote:
Originally Posted by madison999 View Post
2012 ? Newt's recent run for president?

The US is better than every ****hole south of us. That's why they come here.

Blame it on whatever you want. It matters not.
Ignorance Is Bliss
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Old 02-17-2021, 07:02 PM
 
78,448 posts, read 60,652,129 times
Reputation: 49755
Couple points:

1) Yeah, the US has caused some major problems. Some of it can be blamed on war (cold or hot), some on blatant imperialism. What's your timeframe for blame, just curious as to how far back in history you are comfortable going?

2) Some of it can be blamed on the countries themselves, especially religion encouraging over-population.
Go take a look at the Carribean and what island nations became sprawling, breeding pits of poverty and which ones kept populations in check and pushed commerce?

3) (And this is the death blow to your thesis) There is a constant push to come to the US from every corner of the globe. The only difference is that you can't walk here from Asia and Africa. We have tons of Canadians even. This suggests that people come here not because we effed up their countries but because this is the place to be for opportunity.
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Old 02-17-2021, 07:03 PM
 
29,523 posts, read 22,680,154 times
Reputation: 48244
I'm one of the few people that actually likes to look at all sides of an issue at times, and try to see things outside of political affiliation.

Yes, we don't need such migrants flooding our borders, I get that. But, I don't see why we cannot try to find the root cause of why these things happen.

And it's obvious a major factor in why so many Central Americans want to flood our shores is because of the failed war on drugs. I'm certainly not saying we shouldn't crack down on drugs and drug related crimes, but all that the war on drugs has done for many decades is to make drug traffickers more crafty in how to traffic drugs to their biggest customers in the world, Americanos. It just makes zero common sense to fight drugs by cracking down on the supply side, but not the demand side.

As Vox points out, when the U.S. cracked down hard on Colombia, all that did was switch trafficking routes through Mexico. And when governments cracked down on Mexico, all that did was make the Cartels even more efficient, by having the drugs first land in Central America, and then trafficking the drugs overland through Mexico (sooo easy peasy since corruption is rampant throughout Latin America and nothing money can't buy). And once the Cartels focused on Central America, created all kinds of crazy violence.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWcV94G4rRI

America’s cocaine habit fueled its migrant crisis
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Old 02-17-2021, 07:38 PM
 
1,764 posts, read 1,028,472 times
Reputation: 1943
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
Couple points:

1) Yeah, the US has caused some major problems. Some of it can be blamed on war (cold or hot), some on blatant imperialism. What's your timeframe for blame, just curious as to how far back in history you are comfortable going?

2) Some of it can be blamed on the countries themselves, especially religion encouraging over-population.
Go take a look at the Carribean and what island nations became sprawling, breeding pits of poverty and which ones kept populations in check and pushed commerce?

3) (And this is the death blow to your thesis) There is a constant push to come to the US from every corner of the globe. The only difference is that you can't walk here from Asia and Africa. We have tons of Canadians even. This suggests that people come here not because we effed up their countries but because this is the place to be for opportunity.
There has been a significant reduction in the birth rates in Central America and Carribean and it is a trend that is happening around the world. https://data.worldbank.org/indicator...ocations=ZJ-SV With the poorest country in the Americas, Haiti birth rates have significantly declined as well https://data.worldbank.org/indicator...tions=ZJ-SV-HT


Plus the fertility rate for Latin America and the Caribbean is below replacement levels.
The global fertility rate for Latin America and the Caribbean is estimated at 2.04 live births per woman, placing the region for the first time below the level of replacement of 2.1 live births per woman. It is projected that the Global Fertility Rate (GFR) for the region will continue to decline and reach 1.72 by the period 2070-2075.https://www.cepal.org/en/pressreleas...on-levels-2058

You cliam that there is a constant push for people to come to the US from all corners in the world? Well in my country Australia, moving to the US is not a desire for a large majority of the population. It is far safer, and the US does not have universal health care what Australia does.

Neither do a large majority of people from Europe desire to move to the US. Yet with people from developed countries I have spoken to a woman from the Phillipines and I asked her if she would like to move to the USA. She said no, she has no desire, she much perfer to move to Canada with her family.

I have encountered people from the Carribean that would not want to move to the USA too.

Sure many people do want to move to the US, but not everyone wants to.
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Old 02-17-2021, 07:41 PM
 
1,764 posts, read 1,028,472 times
Reputation: 1943
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburban_Guy View Post
I'm one of the few people that actually likes to look at all sides of an issue at times, and try to see things outside of political affiliation.

Yes, we don't need such migrants flooding our borders, I get that. But, I don't see why we cannot try to find the root cause of why these things happen.

And it's obvious a major factor in why so many Central Americans want to flood our shores is because of the failed war on drugs. I'm certainly not saying we shouldn't crack down on drugs and drug related crimes, but all that the war on drugs has done for many decades is to make drug traffickers more crafty in how to traffic drugs to their biggest customers in the world, Americanos. It just makes zero common sense to fight drugs by cracking down on the supply side, but not the demand side.

As Vox points out, when the U.S. cracked down hard on Colombia, all that did was switch trafficking routes through Mexico. And when governments cracked down on Mexico, all that did was make the Cartels even more efficient, by having the drugs first land in Central America, and then trafficking the drugs overland through Mexico (sooo easy peasy since corruption is rampant throughout Latin America and nothing money can't buy). And once the Cartels focused on Central America, created all kinds of crazy violence.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWcV94G4rRI

America’s cocaine habit fueled its migrant crisis
Well yes drugs are a serious problem with those countries and the war on drugs have made conditions hell for so many in central American countries, and due to that they flee from their countries.

Well you have politicians like Ron Paul proposing to legalise drugs, in order to damage the drug barons of Central America and beyond and that the same with the US Green party.
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Old 02-17-2021, 07:42 PM
 
6,137 posts, read 3,358,943 times
Reputation: 11016
Quote:
Originally Posted by herenow1 View Post
The reason, why there has been a constant stream of migrants flooding the US, was due to the hell the US help with their interventions in Central America.

If you don't like refuges coming to your country, then your country should stop creating the conditions which result in the migrants fleeing their homeland in the first place.

The United States has intervened with military forces 12 times in Latin America in this century. Many of these invasions were led by Brigadier General Smedley Butler. In his memoirs “1933,” he says: “I helped make Mexico safe for American Oil interests. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place. For the National City Bank, boys to collect revenue in. I helped pacify Nicaragua for the international banking House of Brown Brothers. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for the American sugar interests. I helped make Honduras right for American fruit companies.”https://theintercept.com/2018/11/28/...ntral-america/

That was declared in the 1930s, not much has changed since then.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ybs3Zn086a0[/url] What's Causing the Central American Migration Crisis?


Back in the 1980s, Central America was a hot spot. President Reagan used inflated claims about communism triumphing there and creeping across our southern border to justify aiding and arming death squads in El Salvador and backing the right-wing government.

The civil war against left-wing rebels claimed the lives of more than 80,000 people. Many of the murdered were innocent, working-class civilians who supported neither the soldiers nor the guerrillas.

The United States is still a source of instability in El Salvador in two ways.

First, it has deported thousands of inmates who had been imprisoned for gang-related issues. The jails in El Salvador do not have capacity to hold the never-ending numbers of inmates deported by the United States, so now many of these criminals roam the streets.

Second, the demand for illegal drugs in the United States fuels the gangs in El Salvador.

So when Republican presidential candidate Newt Gingrich recently denounced the Salvadoran MS-13 gang, he was instilling fear but not offering solutions to help El Salvador fight the crime and violence.


How about doing a google search on "The School of the Americas"?

https://progressive.org/op-eds/unite...y-el-salvador/

It’s always the same thing. It’s Whitey’s fault. Zero accountability. If El Salvador wanted to clean up their country, they could do it. But since it is too uncomfortable to fight the corruption, let’s all blame whitey. It’s easier that way.
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Old 02-17-2021, 07:44 PM
 
5,986 posts, read 2,241,315 times
Reputation: 4622
Same with the 80's crack epidemic but good luck convincing people of what is right in front of them. Nicaragua is a prime example.
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