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Old 03-03-2021, 01:43 PM
 
Location: Long Island
32,816 posts, read 19,465,069 times
Reputation: 9618

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodnight View Post
Then how do we make up all the deficit spending over the last 4 years, where are the spending cuts coming from to make up a few trillion in deficit. Maybe get rid of Medicare, Medicaid, SS and DOD. What programs are you willing to give up and don't tell me foreign aid a food stamps are going to make the difference.

We have an enormous deficit and even if you had some sort of reduction in spending we need additional revenue.
why are you saying the last 4 years...try the last 30+ years...


Reagan/bush1 nearly tripled the debt from 1t to 3t
Clinton nearly doubled the debt from 3t to 5.7t
WBush nearly doubled the debt from 5.7t to 10.6t
Obama doubled the debt from 10.6t to 21t
Trump added 8t to the debt
Biden is on his way to double the debt again
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Old 03-03-2021, 01:45 PM
 
26,694 posts, read 14,550,049 times
Reputation: 8094
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodnight View Post
Then how do we make up all the deficit spending over the last 4 years, where are the spending cuts coming from to make up a few trillion in deficit. Maybe get rid of Medicare, Medicaid, SS and DOD. What programs are you willing to give up and don't tell me foreign aid a food stamps are going to make the difference.

We have an enormous deficit and even if you had some sort of reduction in spending we need additional revenue.
Do everybody else does:

Either live within your means or declare bankruptcy.
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Old 03-03-2021, 01:46 PM
 
Location: Raleigh NC
25,118 posts, read 16,190,459 times
Reputation: 14408
Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieB.Good View Post
Based on what? We're near the bottom of developed countries in the amount of taxes we collect as a share of GDP. And we're near the top on terms of public debt owed from that deficit. So good do we generate plenty of tax revenue?
does a developed country need to tax its production more than others to be "good"? To operate within a reasonable budget?

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator...S?locations=US

Here's the recent history in the US. To his credit, with the Republicans, we were headed in the right direction with annual deficit spending under Clinton, and it would seem clear that the deficit decreased because we were collecting a higher % of taxes. I might say since Clinton, there have 3 events that hurt:

1. War, which we decided to spend a **** ton of money on. We can't go get it back, but we can sure stop spending it. I'm sure there are areas of Defense that can be trimmed.

2. 2008 Recession - which is "understandable" that it happened (recessions always do), but it took way too long for GDP to recover.

3. Covid.

here's a longer history:

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator...S?locations=US

interestingly, before WWII, we took in VERY little taxes. Again, understandably a lot of GDP switched to war efforts and so the tax % went up.

But why did it become necessary from 1950 to 1980 to spend 15-18% of GDP on government?
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Old 03-03-2021, 01:46 PM
 
Location: Chicago, IL
9,701 posts, read 5,107,709 times
Reputation: 4270
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
You're wrong. European countries place their middle class and above in the highest income tax bracket. In the US, one doesn't hit the highest income tax bracket until one earns 9 times the national average. Better to see it in a chart:

Thresholds at which the Top Income Tax Bracket Rates apply, as a Multiple of the Country's Average Income
This is a meaningless stat. The share of the taxes collected by decile/quintile, excluding HC, would be the only way to compare how pro/regressive tax plans are.
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Old 03-03-2021, 01:49 PM
 
Location: Raleigh NC
25,118 posts, read 16,190,459 times
Reputation: 14408
Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieB.Good View Post
https://www.nar.realtor/smart_growth...ates(8-05).pdf

13 states don't charge a transfer fee tax. The only state that doesn't that's in the top 20 of population is Texas. All the others in the bottom 1/2 of population, including 3 of the 5 least populated states.

So when you have most of the most populous states charging a sales tax on property purchase, that means you have most home buyers paying a sales tax when they purchase.

Again... your weak attempts to play at semantics aren't going to save you. A tax that applies on the sale of something to someone else is effectively a sales tax, regardless of what the official name of that tax is.

Criminals pay restitution for court fees. Where's your tax credit or refund from the state or county? Exactly.
in NC, the Seller pays the excise (sales) tax. I assume it's that way in some other states as well.
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Old 03-03-2021, 01:51 PM
 
Location: Raleigh NC
25,118 posts, read 16,190,459 times
Reputation: 14408
Quote:
Originally Posted by zentropa View Post
Everyone? EVERYONE?

LOL I'm sure those 100,000 billionaires this tax will impact are extremely grateful for your support.
it's an estimated 100,000 taxpayers with "net worth" over $50MM, just so we're clear.
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Old 03-03-2021, 01:53 PM
 
1,442 posts, read 1,340,048 times
Reputation: 1597
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodnight View Post
Then how do we make up all the deficit spending over the last 4 years, where are the spending cuts coming from to make up a few trillion in deficit. Maybe get rid of Medicare, Medicaid, SS and DOD. What programs are you willing to give up and don't tell me foreign aid a food stamps are going to make the difference.

We have an enormous deficit and even if you had some sort of reduction in spending we need additional revenue.
The first thing I'd do is AUDIT every single department within the government to find out where all of the waste is, there is a TON of it. Cut out the waste would be my first priority. Then I'd take another look at every federal department and determine how much personnel each of them really need, most departments are bloated like fat cats. I'd also be looking at every department, committee, etc to determine if we even need them or if there are redundancies, there are, and eliminate them.

I'd stop funding things that should be paid for by the private sector vs federal government i.e. performing arts centers, some museums, etc. Then I'd analyze the millions of acres of land that is currently owned by the government to determine how much makes sense for the federal government to own and maintain and sell off what doesn't make sense. Of course national parks and things like that would remain with the federal government. This is the stuff just off the top of my head. We didn't get in this mess overnight and it will take time to get out of it but we have to start somewhere.
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Old 03-03-2021, 01:57 PM
 
Location: Long Island
32,816 posts, read 19,465,069 times
Reputation: 9618
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodnight View Post
Then how do we make up all the deficit spending over the last 4 years, where are the spending cuts coming from to make up a few trillion in deficit. Maybe get rid of Medicare, Medicaid, SS and DOD. What programs are you willing to give up and don't tell me foreign aid a food stamps are going to make the difference.

We have an enormous deficit and even if you had some sort of reduction in spending we need additional revenue.
we should not need to raise taxes on anyone


and all we need to do is trim....why should every expenditure get a 10% increase every year?


where we certainly could cut is the big government departments


revenue is up since the tax cuts


we have a spending problem, not a revenue problem


we could cut almost every department by half


almost every dept could be cut in half other areas(depts.) that could afford cuts

cut the inefficiency...cut the unnecessary

for example...the federal department of education......why does it need 7000 employees?

1. schools are state run..they have state dept of ed's
...a. while we ''may'' need the feds to set a standard..... lets say 100 academics to set standards for nation wide
...b. so total needed 100

2. yes , part of the federal dept of ed is.....pell grants......
...a. ok maybe 10 people per state to process pell requests
...b. so total needed 500

3. that totals out to a ''needed'' 600 personnel, you could even double that amount and say 1200 ....not the 7000 people on the books that we currently have


no-one is saying you cant have departments...only let's be smart about how we fund and man them....especially TO THE MISSION of said department
.
.
.
.
department of transportation....
why are we continuing to fund a failing entity of AMTRAK...???
Amtrak (part of the DOT's 130 billion dollar budget)...over 50 billion is allocated to HSR and Amtrak
why not send Amtrak the way of CONRAIL??


department of energy....16000 employees plus 94000 contractors ...with a budget sitting around 35 billion....... do we really need 100k of employees/contractors to supervise the nations power grid??

DOHUD.....11,000 employees....meanwhile it was HUD with fannie/Freddie that caused the housing bubble/bust

DOHHS....67,000 employees...with a budget near 100 billion...and that doesn't count medicare/Medicaid

DoL.......17,500 employees.... with a budget of 137 billion.......17000 employees and we cant get more people employed in America??

DOA......109,000 employees....with a budget of over 150 billion

department of state (formerly known as dept of foreign affairs).......19,000 employees......55 billion dollar budget which includes some foreign aid too

Dept of treasury.....116,000 employees (86,000 GS employees and 30,000 contractors)....do we really need over 100k employees to run the treasury???... 22 billion budget....... or which IRS....92,000 employees, to process taxes...budget about 13 billion falls under the treasury dept

DOI (dept of interior)...budget 25 billion...70,000 government employees with an additional 20,000 contractors.......now this dept is not so much of a cut in its budget...but does it really need almost 90,000 employees???



everyone of these could be cut by at least half
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Old 03-03-2021, 01:59 PM
 
Location: Raleigh NC
25,118 posts, read 16,190,459 times
Reputation: 14408
Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieB.Good View Post
Equity =/= ownership. Your equity is the difference between YOUR liability and YOUR asset. Charging on the value of homes is correct b/c you OWN the home. What you're suggesting would be like reducing your taxable income b/c of your credit card debt. Your income is your asset and you're taxed on the value of that asset, not what's left after you settle your debts.
no, what I'm suggesting (or attempting to explain, I should say) to you is that property tax isn't a wealth tax. Wealth = equity.
Income has no equivalence to wealth or equity
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Old 03-03-2021, 01:59 PM
 
1,442 posts, read 1,340,048 times
Reputation: 1597
Quote:
Originally Posted by beach43ofus View Post
Its actually worse than that today. ALL the stats that show just under 1/2 are old stats from years ago.

If you look at the trend line over the past 20 years, the # of non-payers has increased nearly every year.

Thus, if you apply the trend line to 2021, & stop using old data, I'd bet $ that its now MORE than 1/2 pay no net federal income taxes.
What's even worse are those who are filing for no other reason than to claim the child tax credit even though they've paid NOTHING in at all. I knew a lady a couple of years ago who claimed to be self employed so she'd file her taxes claiming she made a couple thousand bucks, claimed her children and gets the earned income tax credit. Since her "income" is below the standard deduction, no taxes are due. I've often wondered how many others are doing this.
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