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You're attempting to draw a connection between things, when there isn't. I'm honestly undecided if you're trying to be purposely deceptive or really do lack the critical thinking skills to figure this out.
I'll assume it's the latter so will try to explain. Here is UK's vaccine rollout:
You will note that on January 16 only 2,221 had been fully vaccinated out of a population of 67 million, and those were likely mostly people in medical professions. Even the number of people receiving initial vaccination didn't start ramping up until about January 12, so very few of them would have had much protection only a few days after their first shot.
Also take into account that someone dying on January 16 likely contracted the virus 2-3 weeks earlier, when hardly anyone in UK had received a vaccine. Do you understand now why vaccines were not a factor in people dying on January 16?
Finally, UK's jump in deaths from the winter surge was well consistent with other countries around the world whether they had vaccines or not.
Great post.
Hopefully people now understand that vaccination does not travel back in time thru a worm-hole and thus prevent Covid deaths before the vaccine was administered.
P.S. Hopefully they've got a bed available in the burn unit after that post.
And then news that despite having most or nearly all their population vaccinated, both Israel and United Arab Emirates are now seeing a sharp increase in bad COVID cases after an initial drop, which now seems to be hitting younger people too, ex. https://www.arabnews.com/node/1798691/middle-east
You article doesn't say anything about Israel.
Israel currently has about 45% of their population fully vaccinated.
I wonder what are you all you guys going to do when corona virus cases in Israel, UK, USA drop to very low levels by late summer as vaccination rates approach 70%+. Are you going to just pretend you never made these posts or will you try to twist and squirm saying the data is false or that it has nothing to do with vaccines? It is quite inevitable that you will be proven wrong.
Anybody commenting here have any formal education in virology ? Work in a virology lab? Even sweep up when the day shift goes home ? No. Its all conspiracy theory and nut jobs spouting fudderey. Never mind the "I read it in ________" comments, Nobody knows much about how this virus really affects the population, much less any of the vaccines in distribution. Go on spreading misinformation or fake news. It doesn't matter what you call it. I'll take the advice of those with an "MD" after their name. At least they have a bit more credibility. Unsubscribing.
And yet you have no set criteria for exactly who will be affected more by the virus than those who will not, any more than you have for why people should not receive the vaccine, do you? We know what covid can and has done to people across the spectrum. We also know the minimal side effects of the vaccine, especially in comparison to the effects the disease has presented. That is enough for the vast majority to believe, competently, that the vaccines are a safe bet against this virus. Any further misgivings should be directed to the medical specialist you surely see for the autoimmune disorder you claim to have.
Good day.
We have a very good idea about which groups will be hit hardest with covid. A lot of evidence.
By the way, great compassion you are showing by insinuating that my autoimmune disorder is made up. It really makes me want to listen to what you have to say.
The Guardian reported on Jan. 16 that weekly nursing home deaths in Britain had jumped by 46%, to 1,200 deaths, since introduction of vaccines.
Readdressing the UK since I posted wrong graph with wrong numbers...
In January very few people in UK were fully vaccinated. It takes two weeks from second dose to have full protection, look at two weeks before January 16 to see how many had received both doses = 0.03%.
Adding to that people dying on January 16 most likely caught the virus in December when nobody had been vaccinated. Clearly your attempt to draw causation with vaccines and people dying in January 16 is poorly thought out, those deaths are related to the winter surge shared by many countries.
My wife and I were signed up two weeks ago to get the COVID shots. But after lurking about some of the concerns being brought up here, some bad news internationally and word that even some of our own vaccinated friends and neighbors are still coming down with severe cases of coronavirus, now we're not sure what the hell to do and it's very frustrating. To be clear about it, both of us are in higher-risk categories for COVID so we're inclined to get vaccinated for that reason alone, and most of our friends haven't had short term issues with the vaccine other than a sore arm and mild fever (outside of a couple who got knocked flat), but we're starting to have a lot of second thoughts. And now news that in a care home in Canada where nearly all the residents got fully vaccinated, they've just had an outbreak of COVID. The scale of the outbreak wasn't clear at first but from what we're hearing from relatives up in BC, the outbreak is expanding and several of the vaccinated residents are now having to be hospitalized for COVID, even though they completed their two-dose vaccine sequence (most Pfizer IIRC, maybe a few Moderna) a few weeks ago.
And then news that despite having most or nearly all their population vaccinated, both Israel and United Arab Emirates are now seeing a sharp increase in bad COVID cases after an initial drop, which now seems to be hitting younger people too, ex. https://www.arabnews.com/node/1798691/middle-east
Does anyone with medical know-how know what's going on? We're in STEM and can both kinda read the technical literature, but don't have the expertise to know where to look or interpret it. Is this because of the variants that are supposed to be vaccine resistant--I think the California strain and maybe the Nigerian or S. African one was supposed to infect people and cause severe illness even with the vaccine? Or is it just because immunity falls off a cliff after a month? (I think they said the clinical trials only required to show people protected a week after the shots?) Should we get the shots now, or wait to get the vaccines until they know how long the immunity lasts? Or maybe even figure out what variants are in our area? (The labs are only starting to ramp this up.)
To be clear we're worried more about the efficacy than the safety since our friends have generally done well so far, although we do have a bit of nagging doubt here which is part of our hesitation--if indeed there are safety issues (and who in the world knows about the long term) then we don't want to have to keep going back again and again to get boosted. They seem pretty safe for now but we've been getting scattered reports from our hospital about a nurse and doctor who suffered a miscarriage and some Bell's Palsy right after getting vaccinated despite being in perfect health, and then there's things like this, https://www.kristv.com/news/national...vid-19-vaccine
No one knows if the vaccine caused Kassidi's death yet but who knows when we're in such unknown territory? Again by risk benefit it probably makes sense for us to get the shot, but in case there are longer term safety issues we'd prefer to get as few shots as possible and only when we have some idea about how long immunity lasts. We're about to head out to dinner with some vaccinated friends who were initially going to drop the masks, but now we're all going with our tight-fitting masks firmly on. Does anyone with medical expertise have answers on this?
Your first link gives a clue. 82 percent of the residents were vaccinated, and the time it takes for the vaccination to take effect. Out of 268 residents, to date 11 residents contracted Covid and two staff members.
My link explains that 65 percent of the staff had only been vaccinated due to them being hesitant. That is being addressed. The other important piece is that the outbreak started not in the main part of the home but in the short-stay section where people are placed temporally. Those people just got their shots recently.
The thing I take away from this, is that it isn't the vaccine that is the issue, but people, such as the staff, who were hesitant to take it. If they had 100 percent compliance, the story probably would have been different.
Maybe you should consult your endocrinologist about whether the vaccine is safe rather than rambling on the internet everyday about why you think it isn’t, if that’s truly a concern. I have an associate with rheumatoid arthritis and another with metastasized cancer and both of their physicians strongly urged them to receive the vaccine.
lol this was addressed a couple posts before this, the issue is most doctors won't give clear recommendations one way or another because they themselves don't have answers for something that's in such an early experimental state, and they're not going to be commital on anything where unforeseen issues down the road could come back to bite them and put them at risk of malpractice lawsuits or liability. They're even debating among themselves right now, and while the doctors obviously know more than we do about their specialty, they really don't know a whole lot more about the vaccine itself, since nobody has much data to go on as far as how things will go in people on a large scale, or how long immunity lasts. Hard to blame healthcare workers for taking such a stance, but it's tough to get any kind of medical advice when practically every doctor, nurse or PA we've talked to has sat on the fence and refused to give a rec one way or the other, just repeating things we already know from the trials and telling us to make up our own mind. Funnily enough one endocrinologist we did talk to about whether to get the vaccine was also sitting on the fence, except to tell us that most vaccines by standard procedure have taken 15 years or so in the past to approve, particularly if they use a new system, to make sure the safety and effectiveness are understood. And didn't say anything more. Which sounded like a signal to study the issue, talk to people and be careful with the decision. The truth is there is no "professional answer" we can get just yet and the doctors won't budge. We're operating with partial info, so the best we can do is what a lot of us are doing here, talking to friends and going online onto forums for crowd-based sourcing, reasoned arguments and data pts. to help us figure out. Again there's a lot to rec getting the vaccine esp. for someone who's high risk, but also questions about how long any protection lasts and how to deal with different strains. These aren't trivial issues to sort through.
The answer to that is that this thread (I'm just a little ways in and have not looked ahead, so perhaps I'm wrong) is giving me the vibe of the classic...
"I'm just here to ask questions friends" and then shortly thereafter it's clear that they already have an opinion and start ramming it down peoples throats after trojan horsing or use a pretext.
The answer to that is that this thread (I'm just a little ways in and have not looked ahead, so perhaps I'm wrong) is giving me the vibe of the classic...
"I'm just here to ask questions friends" and then shortly thereafter it's clear that they already have an opinion and start ramming it down peoples throats after trojan horsing or use a pretext.
This is a common tactic seen over the years, especially by Alex Jones fans.
In case you haven't noticed many of us have given points both in favor and against getting the shot, which is why this is being discussed. Re-read the posts here, we're actually leaning in favor of getting the vaccine, the problem is that in your binary mode of thinking, you're so obsessed and desperate to silence discussion or dissent that you fail to grasp that this isn't an either or discussion. Even though we're likely to get the shot, there are also questions about when to get it, which one to get, whether to get it immediately or should we hold off and wait for more information, figure out how long protection lasts, if it varies from region to region--lots and lots of things. And again the problem is, our own doctors don't have answers and or won't risk taking too much of a side when there's so much uncertainty.
I will say this, most of the pro-vaxxers we've talked to have been reasonable and given decent arguments, and we respect that. But far too many like yourself are almost hilarious in the level of butthurt insecurity you display about even acknowledging that maybe, just maybe, things aren't so cut and dried as you fantasize they are. And then too often you go trotting out the anti-vaxx or Alex Jones label--total lol. Like I said there's a huge difference between trusting in vaccines like polio, pneumovax or MMR with decades of good data to show they're safe and effective, which proven vaccines are (and which all of us get, as well as our kids and grandkids for the ones on their schedules), vs. an experimental vaccine with an experimental technology like the Pfizer or Moderna preparations that haven't even been out for a year for mass testing. Nobody knows the longer term issues there and only a fool would go blindly into that without asking questions, and a lot of them. And some of you dogmatists who deny this or try to make it such a black and white issue, especially with such tones of arrogance and dismissivness are doing more to convince people not to get a COVID19 vaccine than Alex Jones or his crazy followers ever could.
Readdressing the UK since I posted wrong graph with wrong numbers...
In January very few people in UK were fully vaccinated. It takes two weeks from second dose to have full protection, look at two weeks before January 16 to see how many had received both doses = 0.03%.
Adding to that people dying on January 16 most likely caught the virus in December when nobody had been vaccinated. Clearly your attempt to draw causation with vaccines and people dying in January 16 is poorly thought out, those deaths are related to the winter surge shared by many countries.
I'm beginning to think some on this thread think that the vaccine will cure covid if they already are infected....
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