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My son-in-law took art as a major, and philosophy as a minor at university. Not great employment degrees, right?
He went on to get a master degree in ecology. He now heads the parks planning division for my jurisdiction, dealing with multi-million dollar budgets and numerous employees and sub-contractors. He has been gainfully employed for years, providing for my daughter and his children while she stayed at their house they own until all were of school age, and then she went back to work.
In today's world, someone coming out of grade 12 is virtually unemployable at any position that enables them to advance. It requires a trade, or college, or university. Just as K-12 used to be what it took to provide an education to move the economy forward, now it takes more.
I support tax dollars providing that intellectual and skill training that is required.[/QUOTE
This is what many don't understand. An education in any field is valuable. You just need to know how to use it. My son majored in history. Not a great employment degree as well, I guess. But with that degree he was accepted into a masters program in England in international relations. He has a great job now with excellent pay. We have to invest in education for our kids because they are our future.
So now we’re not talking about 4 years of undergrad but potentially 6 or 7 years of taxpayer funded higher ed? Btw, both yours and the op’s anecdotes required masters programs to become employable? I think you killed your arguments.
My son-in-law took art as a major, and philosophy as a minor at university. Not great employment degrees, right?
He went on to get a master degree in ecology. He now heads the parks planning division for my jurisdiction, dealing with multi-million dollar budgets and numerous employees and sub-contractors. He has been gainfully employed for years, providing for my daughter and his children while she stayed at their house they own until all were of school age, and then she went back to work.
In today's world, someone coming out of grade 12 is virtually unemployable at any position that enables them to advance. It requires a trade, or college, or university. Just as K-12 used to be what it took to provide an education to move the economy forward, now it takes more.
I support tax dollars providing that intellectual and skill training that is required.
The outcome of your son in law is not typical for soft majors. Gotta say I love that he made it work.
There are around 20 states that offer free tuition for community colleges to varying degrees, some have income and residency restrictions. Makes a lot of sense, good investment in the workforce and a good inexpensive path to a university.
Care to guess why China, Japan and Korea have better economies and are the future? Because they actually value higher education, unlike much of the USA, which frowns on it.
What's wrong with supporting a trade school with tax dollars? Or a college? Or an university? We need skills at all levels, and high school doesn't do it. Don't pretend it does, because anyone with only a grade 12 education will be relegated to the lowest jobs, with the least amount of chance to advance.
Do they have better economies? Show how.
What does "value higher education" mean?
"we need skills" should people decide for themselves or should politicians tell them?
Care to guess why China, Japan and Korea have better economies and are the future? Because they actually value higher education, unlike much of the USA, which frowns on it.
What's wrong with supporting a trade school with tax dollars? Or a college? Or an university? We need skills at all levels, and high school doesn't do it. Don't pretend it does, because anyone with only a grade 12 education will be relegated to the lowest jobs, with the least amount of chance to advance.
I have been hearing how Asian countries are the future for over 40 years. Lol!
And btw, without the US, China is a feudal nation of peasant farmers slapping their cow’s hind quarters with switches made of the nearest tree branches.
"we need skills" should people decide for themselves or should politicians tell them?
Japan is in decline. Korea is a small country and will never be relevant on the world stage on its own. China has a ticking demographics timebomb which will seriously hinder it in the future.
Millions upon millions of people do not go to college.
And just so you are aware, in countries that have free college, millions of people cannot go unless they pay for it themselves. The government only gives you free college if you qualify for it.
Care to guess why China, Japan and Korea have better economies and are the future? Because they actually value higher education, unlike much of the USA, which frowns on it.
Why would we want to copy those countries when we are doing much better? Our per capita GDP is 5th highest in the world. Japan is #22 and Korea is #26. They have barely half the per capita income we do. And China is only 20% of us.
If we want to look at anyone how about Ireland, Switzerland or Norway? And do they have a Harvard, Yale or Stanford there? Our higher education is top notch. We value our higher education. Enough to say we should not just give it away for free. Our problem really is our K-12 which is not very good. Yet free.
Norway has free college. And extremely high taxes and cost of living. I don't think most Americans want to live like that. But you are free to move there anytime you want.
"we need skills" should people decide for themselves or should politicians tell them?
It has nothing to do with politicians telling people what to study, it has everything to do with valuing higher education. America USED to. But in the past 20 years or so, it has become popular to deride it, especially in the red states. Go to rural Illinois or Pennsylvania. Or almost anyone in Mississippi or Louisiana.
What happened when the USA lead the world? Got to the moon in 9 years? Lead in patents? They valued higher education, but now?
The USA has some of the best universities in the world. Use them.
On the other hand, the trades are not emphasized as viable options. Not everyone can be an academic, nor should they be. My son is an example. He graduated near the top of his class out of highschool, and contemplated engineering, and was accepted in that very competitive program. After the first year, he realized it was not his thing, went to tech college, studied telecommunications, was at the top of his class from day one, and has had a successful career with a large telecom dealing with the internet backbone as their go to expert on the tech side. He's been seconded to the military in the past to set up sites in NATO countries, including in the Pentagon. He reminded me that even as a young teenager, that his goal was to work with his head AND his hands.
We need to encourage both the academic and trades, and it makes no sense not to have public tax dollars pay for them. Make the universities public bodies, not private concerns. Those who want to continue to be private would not be eligible for any of those tax dollars.
It has nothing to do with politicians telling people what to study, it has everything to do with valuing higher education. America USED to. But in the past 20 years or so, it has become popular to deride it, especially in the red states. Go to rural Illinois or Pennsylvania. Or almost anyone in Mississippi or Louisiana.
What happened when the USA lead the world? Got to the moon in 9 years? Lead in patents? They valued higher education, but now?
The USA has some of the best universities in the world. Use them.
On the other hand, the trades are not emphasized as viable options. Not everyone can be an academic, nor should they be. My son is an example. He graduated near the top of his class out of highschool, and contemplated engineering, and was accepted in that very competitive program. After the first year, he realized it was not his thing, went to tech college, studied telecommunications, was at the top of his class from day one, and has had a successful career with a large telecom dealing with the internet backbone as their go to expert on the tech side. He's been seconded to the military in the past to set up sites in NATO countries, including in the Pentagon. He reminded me that even as a young teenager, that his goal was to work with his head AND his hands.
We need to encourage both the academic and trades, and it makes no sense not to have public tax dollars pay for them. Make the universities public bodies, not private concerns. Those who want to continue to be private would not be eligible for any of those tax dollars.
This is complete nonsense. The problem today is some woke white fool studies Javan Transgender Poetry and thinks they are entitled to earn a lot of money, have the taxpayers pay for the education, live in a hot NYC neighborhood, etc. The sense of entitlement in America today is sickening.
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