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there are health problems from masks. I don't complain about shirts and shoes. if you believed there were health problems from them you would not wear them either. I believe in years to come people will have serious health problems from the masks.
I worked in healthcare for almost a decade and wore a mask every single day. None of my coworkers ever succumbed to any illnesses caused by masks.
I'd say that shoes are far more likely to cause problems. Bunions, athlete's foot... you're barking up the wrong tree, here.
Well, today is six weeks from the time that all adults have been eligible to receive a vaccine, and I'm largely done masking now. If a business has a sign requiring a mask, then I will wear one. I will wear one for my upcoming flight because obviously that is required and I have no issue with it. And if I were at a crowded indoor event with a lot of people here in Florida, I would probably wear one simply because we have a large number of variants. But in grocery stores and similar places, no, I'm no longer masking up. At this point, if you have chosen not to get vaccinated, then I assume you are fine taking the risk of having others breathe their germy air on you. (I am fully vaccinated, so the chances of me spreading covid are very small, but I realize it could happen... that's why I've waited this long.)
So in other words, you'll just randomly and inconsistently adhere to superstition because it makes you feel better (in places where you're not forced).
So in other words, you'll just randomly and inconsistently adhere to superstition because it makes you feel better (in places where you're not forced).
Yep. We all do that. Some of us are better at admitting it than others. Lucky for you, my choice to wear a mask in TJ Maxx to adhere to their posted policy affects you exactly zero.
Yep. We all do that. Some of us are better at admitting it than others. Lucky for you, my choice to wear a mask in TJ Maxx to adhere to their posted policy affects you exactly zero.
At least you admit that they are emotional rather than actually having any physical benefits.
. At this point, if you have chosen not to get vaccinated, then I assume you are fine taking the risk of having others breathe their germy air on you. )
Thank you! We were all along.
Although I am getting the vaccine tomorrow. I kind of have too.
... Lucky for you, my choice to wear a mask in TJ Maxx to adhere to their posted policy affects you exactly zero.
That is only partially true. If the person to whom you responded is unusual in refusing to wear a mask while in the store, then said person's behavior would give minimal cause for the proprietors who change their mask policy. If instead the foot traffic in the store collapsed, because customers were instead shopping at the competitor across the street, where masks are not required, then the proprietors would have serious cause to rethink their policy.
The various 'rona restrictions were successful because they were popular. Protests and dissent, though in some cases vehement, were not overwhelming. It is not the case, that state legislators were inundated with millions of angry letters, demanding reopening of schools, rescinding of mask-rules and so on. Sure, there was some smattering of such letters. But was it overwhelming? Doubtful.
Beyond a certain point, our personal and private choices very much affect the rights and privileges of others. In a related thread on this forum, a thoughtful poster asked me, how a dogmatically Libertarian stance would square with an outcome where people walked around naked and had sex in public. Would I be comfortable with that? The point being, that however onerous are the current restrictions of this or that, if we rescind them, we get all sorts of unpleasant outcomes. So, we accept the restrictions, choosing the lesser of competing evils. But... is the alternative really an evil? I'm quite fine with the public-nudity thing. If my neighbors and compatriots and fellow citizens were also fine with this, presumably the laws would eventually change. So, the choices and preferences of others, definitely affect what I am able to personally do.
Returning to masks, suppose that as a society we made a choice back in March of 2020 to go for the so-called "herd immunity". We were told that if we did this, taking no anti-virus measures, then millions (in the US, that is) would die. We were unsatisfied with that option. So, overwhelmingly we chose to accept restrictions, such as masking or social distancing. But now imagine that we chose to accept all of those deaths. So here we would have been, 15 months later, with 2M or 3M or 4M dead, and maybe another million or two seriously ill, with "long Covid" symptoms. But we'd not have been wearing masks. Is this a bad choice? Let me elide the question, lest this posting get deleted. Instead, I say the following: the overwhelming majority chose to go a certain way. Their choices dictated my choices too. I wanted a different outcome, but my voice was in a small minority. Had large numbers of other people chosen differently, then that would have enabled a different choice on my own part.
That is only partially true. If the person to whom you responded is unusual in refusing to wear a mask while in the store, then said person's behavior would give minimal cause for the proprietors who change their mask policy. If instead the foot traffic in the store collapsed, because customers were instead shopping at the competitor across the street, where masks are not required, then the proprietors would have serious cause to rethink their policy.
The various 'rona restrictions were successful because they were popular. Protests and dissent, though in some cases vehement, were not overwhelming. It is not the case, that state legislators were inundated with millions of angry letters, demanding reopening of schools, rescinding of mask-rules and so on. Sure, there was some smattering of such letters. But was it overwhelming? Doubtful.
Beyond a certain point, our personal and private choices very much affect the rights and privileges of others. In a related thread on this forum, a thoughtful poster asked me, how a dogmatically Libertarian stance would square with an outcome where people walked around naked and had sex in public. Would I be comfortable with that? The point being, that however onerous are the current restrictions of this or that, if we rescind them, we get all sorts of unpleasant outcomes. So, we accept the restrictions, choosing the lesser of competing evils. But... is the alternative really an evil? I'm quite fine with the public-nudity thing. If my neighbors and compatriots and fellow citizens were also fine with this, presumably the laws would eventually change. So, the choices and preferences of others, definitely affect what I am able to personally do.
Returning to masks, suppose that as a society we made a choice back in March of 2020 to go for the so-called "herd immunity". We were told that if we did this, taking no anti-virus measures, then millions (in the US, that is) would die. We were unsatisfied with that option. So, overwhelmingly we chose to accept restrictions, such as masking or social distancing. But now imagine that we chose to accept all of those deaths. So here we would have been, 15 months later, with 2M or 3M or 4M dead, and maybe another million or two seriously ill, with "long Covid" symptoms. But we'd not have been wearing masks. Is this a bad choice? Let me elide the question, lest this posting get deleted. Instead, I say the following: the overwhelming majority chose to go a certain way. Their choices dictated my choices too. I wanted a different outcome, but my voice was in a small minority. Had large numbers of other people chosen differently, then that would have enabled a different choice on my own part.
Yes, this is true on a philosophical level. I'll still follow posted signs. I believe that businesses can ask for public health measures to be followed by customers.
One thing that actually keeps me out of TJ Maxx is their policy to keep the dressing rooms closed. I understood that in the beginning of the pandemic, of course, but now we are past that point. I do find it irritating that I can't try something on at this store and Target. Most of the stores around here have opened their dressing rooms back up, so I patronize those stores instead when I'm shopping for clothing.
I do think that requiring masks is going to become quite unpopular quickly. I have no problem with people wearing them and, in fact, I might choose to wear them myself in some situations. But the pandemic is to the point now where I'm not sure that I agree with the requirements. I wouldn't bypass a store's posted rule, though. I'd just shop elsewhere if I disagreed with it to the point that I was tempted to take off my mask despite them clearly stating that customers must wear them.
It would make them feel sorry for you, not angry. I live in a place where indoor masks are still required (until June 15), but outdoor masks are not. When I see someone walking outdoors wearing a mask, I just think, that poor person, either they are really sick and immunocompromised, or they are fearful and paranoid. Either of which is sad. And if there are still people wearing masks inside months from now, I'll think the same thing.
Yesterday I saw a younger couple out walking on an otherwise empty street, maskless, each holding one hand of a child about four years old who WAS wearing a mask. I assume they are making their four-year-old wear a mask outside because she is not vaccinated. Or maybe she has a terrible health condition. Sad.
I do think that requiring masks is going to become quite unpopular quickly. I have no problem with people wearing them and, in fact, I might choose to wear them myself in some situations. But the pandemic is to the point now where I'm not sure that I agree with the requirements. I wouldn't bypass a store's posted rule, though. I'd just shop elsewhere if I disagreed with it to the point that I was tempted to take off my mask despite them clearly stating that customers must wear them.
Your optimism is hard to share. I see masking as an entrenched cultural norm. Yes, there are the rebels and the persons on the other side of the norm. Some are quite vocal. But are they numerous? More importantly, are they powerful?
The persons in comfortable positions - the one setting the pace of culture - tend to be thoroughly pro-mask. Perhaps this is the lament of the working-classes against the "elites"? I see offices where the senior staff fall all over each other in vying for maximum fastidiousness and excellence in mask-wearing. It almost seems as if the higher the educational attainment and "soft power" that a person wields, the more vigorous the adherence to masks.
In our state, supposedly the 15th of June is an official day, where mask-mandates are to be rescinded. I gleefully away the "liberation", but am not optimistic on the results. Laws and directives can say one thing, and it's fine thing for them to do so. But the community at large may be retrograde and - how shall I put it? - conservative. I expect the enforcement of masks in private offices, and in a bevy of retail establishments, indefinitely.
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