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I was very surprised to read this: Dr. Stephen Nelson, chairman of Florida’s medical examiners commission, stated: “Even if someone with severe heart disease died of a heart attack during a purse-snatching, we’d still call it a homicide.” https://globalnews.ca/news/7029209/g...topsy-experts/
So who would then be held responsible for that death: the lady whose purse was snatched? She could be charged with murder?!
Like I said in an earlier post, I have never met a bad cop in my entire life. People the police have to deal with are something else. If we don't break the law, we will never have an encounter with the police. I did break the rules a few times: driving above speed limits, driving through a stop sign, parking in a paralyzed spot and that's about it. I was never issued a ticket and let off because all my infractions were not intentional. There were no mean cops trying to stick it to me the way people viewed Chauvin as doing to Floyd.
If there are no bad cops why are cities paying out these massive settlements? The overwhelming majority of these aren’t jury awards they are pre trial settlements.
NYC $170 million yearly
Chicago $47 million yearly
L.A $33 million yearly
Washington DC $13 million yearly
Philadelphia $10.5 million yearly
Detroit $6.4 million yearly
Milwaukee $4 million yearly
Baltimore $3.6 million yearly
San Francisco $2.7 million yearly
These payments are almost all settlements in which the plaintiffs are NEVER prosecuted with a crime.
These settlements are because police officers violated the constitutionally protected rights of Americans.period.
There are bad cops. Unless you believe the city leaders,DA, Judges and citizens are all stacked against cops. Wrong there are bad cops.
If there are no bad cops why are cities paying out these massive settlements? The overwhelming majority of these aren’t jury awards they are pre trial settlements.
NYC $170 million yearly
Chicago $47 million yearly
L.A $33 million yearly
Washington DC $13 million yearly
Philadelphia $10.5 million yearly
Detroit $6.4 million yearly
Milwaukee $4 million yearly
Baltimore $3.6 million yearly
San Francisco $2.7 million yearly
These payments are almost all settlements in which the plaintiffs are NEVER prosecuted with a crime.
These settlements are because police officers violated the constitutionally protected rights of Americans.period.
There are bad cops. Unless you believe the city leaders,DA, Judges and citizens are all stacked against cops. Wrong there are bad cops.
Why are we not able to access information regarding the Congressional Slush Fund regarding payments to those that have claimed abuse from elected Officials?
But to answer your question, there are many reasons why a city would pay up. Settle before trial to avoid the Political crap show that is currently in fashion. The cost of litigation might be too much to bear considering the possibilities of winning.
The settlements hardly confirm guilt. You can look to the former top Law Enforcement Officer in the country some years ago that wrote a big fat check for a settlement.
Of course there are bad cops. Bad Lawyers, Dentists, Doctors , incompetence is rampant in our society.
But Cops, they are involved in the dirtiest of work. Dirty work. Picking up the broken pieces of people’s lives, day after day . No end in sight.
Making some great leaps of interpretive thinking and assuming Floyd did in fact ingest something orally as LEO pulled him over to evade a possession charge it would have taken at least 30 minutes or longer for this hypothetical substance to get into his blood stream via the digestive system and more likely, 45 minutes to an hour. How long was it between LEO pulling him over until he was face down on the pavement with a knee on his neck? was it 30 minutes or longer so the effects of this drug had time to enter his system and kill him?
Now, assuming the time frame allowed this scenario, most every police officer in the country undergoes basic life support as part of their training. They are effectively first aid medical responders and they are on the clock. Any first responder that is 'on the clock', even volunteers on call at home , have a duty to act. That is they can be held liable for harm done to a person because they did not fulfill their duty. Once Floyd was no longer a threat, any first responder should be able to recognize a life threatening situation and intervene appropriately to their level of training. This usually means at least administering CPR. If they do not, they are liable in a court of law for failure to act and preform the duty they are obligated to do.
So you don't consider the presence of an overdose of Fentanyl in his system to be evidence that he'd have OD'd?
You don't consider symptoms of OD such as hypoxia and pulmonary edema being present prior to him being on the ground as evidence that he WAS OD'ing?
I agree that no medical examiner is going to put themselves or their families at risk by labeling OD as the cause of death....who would want the animals that will be in the streets burning things down going after them....but that's not to say that if you removed the danger element that an examiner wouldn't give that honest assessment.
1. Again, you use the word “overdose” as if it is established. Before you even go down that route, you need to reexamine how you arrived at “overdose”. Antemortem peripheral blood samples of people taking chronic opioids often reveal levels far higher than 11ng/ml. These individuals are living and breathing, using fentanyl for pain control and some have built tolerance, as I have explained to you. In postmortem case series in Europe, deaths attributed to fentanyl intoxication generally had fentanyl blood concentrations in the 40s-150s ng/ml. In contrast, those who used fentanyl for pain regularly before their other medical conditions ended their lives (cancer, pneumonia, etc) had fentanyl concentrations anywhere from 2-15 ng/ml. These individuals did not “OD”. You cannot use the one postmortem blood value of 11 ng/ml to conclude Floyd OD’d. It is not just intellectual dishonesty, it is dishonesty. Period.
2. Hypoxia is the symptom of someone who is not ventilating or oxygenating. In this case, we have a visual explanation that requires only common sense to comprehend. Pulmonary edema is not a common “symptom” of fentanyl intoxication. It may be RARE complication. In this case, you do not have evidence that Floyd developed pulmonary edema, let alone classify it as cardiogenic or non-cardiogenic as some armchair medical experts here have speculated. Based on my own high school biology education, I can tell you more often than not people are simply hypersalivating when agitated and look like they are “foaming at the mouth” (hence, the expression) rather than foaming from acute pulmonary edema, which is a clinical diagnosis that must be made based on data and radiographic evidence. It is not a postmortem diagnosis.
3. A fentanyl OD looks like a heroin OD. The victim is usually slumped over, not communicating or slurring, barely breathing. They do not resist to the degree that three officers have to hold them down, and they certainly don’t complain about not being able to breathe. Because you know what my high school teacher taught me about opioids? They take away the sensation of breathlessness.
To reiterate, no qualified medical examiner is going to put the cause of death as fentanyl intoxication because there is no set of factual data to support the conclusion. You made that conclusion on a wish.
If there are no bad cops why are cities paying out these massive settlements? The overwhelming majority of these aren’t jury awards they are pre trial settlements.
NYC $170 million yearly
Chicago $47 million yearly
L.A $33 million yearly
Washington DC $13 million yearly
Philadelphia $10.5 million yearly
Detroit $6.4 million yearly
Milwaukee $4 million yearly
Baltimore $3.6 million yearly
San Francisco $2.7 million yearly
These payments are almost all settlements in which the plaintiffs are NEVER prosecuted with a crime.
These settlements are because police officers violated the constitutionally protected rights of Americans.period.
There are bad cops. Unless you believe the city leaders,DA, Judges and citizens are all stacked against cops. Wrong there are bad cops.
"A consent decree is an agreement or settlement that resolves a dispute between two parties without admission of guilt (in a criminal case) or liability (in a civil case), and most often refers to such a type of settlement in the United States." (Wikipedia)
This is the way we work things out in America to make things go away without malice. Why cities make these settlements is anybody's guess. And in your case, you choose to blame it on police officers. I don't know why you hate the police so much. Everybody has a reason.
I was very surprised to read this: Dr. Stephen Nelson, chairman of Florida’s medical examiners commission, stated: “Even if someone with severe heart disease died of a heart attack during a purse-snatching, we’d still call it a homicide.” https://globalnews.ca/news/7029209/g...topsy-experts/
So who would then be held responsible for that death: the lady whose purse was snatched? She could be charged with murder?!
Why? She's the one who is dead.
She had a severe heart condition. During a purse snatching, she dies of a heart attack, likely brought on by the stress of being mugged. But in any case, she died during the commission of a crime and the person who would be charged with her her death would be the purse snatcher.
You have no evidence that Floyd would have OD’d. That is your interpretation based on a wish, not fact. Based on the circumstances of Floyd’s death, no qualified medical examiner would issue fentanyl or polysubstance overdose as the cause of death. And that is why you don’t see this in the ME’s report. Hope this helps.
So what if he might have OD'd at some point in the future? He didn't O.D. here.
As you point out, that's why O.D. is not listed as cause of death on any official medical records.
Bruce Goldberger, forensic medicine chief at the University of Florida College of Medicine, pointed out that the presence of substances is not relelevant as, “We know his death is not due to toxicological means” because of the video of the circumstances.
Though I do appreciate Chauvin's valiant supporters on this thread. It keeps the discussion going, and helps us all see the world through different eyes, if only for a moment.
So what if he might have OD'd at some point in the future? He didn't O.D. here.
As you point out, that's why O.D. is not listed as cause of death on any official medical records.
Though I do appreciate Chauvin's valiant supporters on this thread. It keeps the discussion going, and helps us all see the world through different eyes, if only for a moment.
So what if he might have OD'd at some point in the future? He didn't O.D. here.
As you point out, that's why O.D. is not listed as cause of death on any official medical records.
Though I do appreciate Chauvin's valiant supporters on this thread. It keeps the discussion going, and helps us all see the world through different eyes, if only for a moment.
Chauvin’s supporters are no better than Chauvin himself. It is particularly entertaining to read these “experts” trying to pass off pseudoscience as fact, thinking that we are gullible enough to believe them simply because we may not have a college education. That crackpot fentanyl theory doesn’t even pass the commonsense smell test. No degree needed.
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