NYC acts to end Qualified Immunity for Police Officers, joining states Co. & Conn. who have taken action on the issue (Iran, Iraq)

[phma]

Having reviewed you narrative/story I find a glairing problem you created for yourself !!!

First statement by you) I'm a cop and my last civil litigation involved a guy i had at gun point during a felony traffic stop

Second and later statement) Officer Du Ma conducted a felony traffic stop with gun out.

??? So at what point was the guy at gun point and for what reason

Lets look at the Constitution !!! That pesky thing that officers take an oath to whether they mean it or not !!! It does give at least guidance if not the law !!!

Amendment IV (1791)
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Its been agreed upon that authority to act requires a warrant or probable cause !!!

We know there was no warrant naming a specific person !!!
While you had reasonable suspicion to make the stop is without question !!!
I say you did, anyway !!!

Everyone is most likely familiar with a police line up where a witness is brought in to identify a suspect !!! That is essentially the position you were in out on the street !!!

You lawfully activated your emergency equipment and pulled the guy over !!!
He pulled over and didn't try to flee !!! That's in his favor !!! He acted the way he was supposed to as a reasonable person should !!! ( using the legal fiction of a court, "a reasonable person" standard)

??? How do you get probable cause !!!
You start an investigation !!!
Sounds like you did that and as you say, "Turns out the driver and vehicle were not the BOLO subject." You never got probable cause or you would have arrested the guy !!!

At some point without probable cause you pointed a weapon at the guy !!!

You accosted a member of the public freely going about his business and in a reckless and heedless manner placed him at gun point !!! Under the Use-of-Force Continuum you went from Officer Presence to Lethal Force without probable cause !!!
??? Can you explain how and why that happened
The Constitution does not grant that authority to anyone !!! End of story !!!

The ball is in your court !!! Respond !!! Comply, reply and obey !!! You know the deal !!!

Normally I would read the Maranda Warning here !!! You would be well advised to make use of the 5th amendment and remain silent !!! Or you can confess to the crime as is your right to do !!! In reality you pretty much did that when you posted your story of the encounter !!!

[Bitey]

It seems some folks have confused "qualified" immunity with "total" immunity. No cop should have the latter. All of them should have the former.

Why any cop would expose himself to legal liability because his training or instruction was faulty is beyond me. So, as many suggest here, they will do everything to avoid that exposure. This is what "policiing" will become:

1) Sit in squad car on quiet side street
2) Drink coffee and read newspaper
3) Wait for call of crime in progress
4) Receive said call; take sweet time getting there
5) Show up after the fact and document the aftermath
6) Collect paycheck
7) Repeat steps 1 through 7 until it's time to collect pension check

[Du Ma]

Originally Posted by phma

Having reviewed you narrative/story I find a glairing problem you created for yourself !!!

First statement by you) I'm a cop and my last civil litigation involved a guy i had at gun point during a felony traffic stop

Second and later statement) Officer Du Ma conducted a felony traffic stop with gun out.

??? So at what point was the guy at gun point and for what reason

Lets look at the Constitution !!! That pesky thing that officers take an oath to whether they mean it or not !!! It does give at least guidance if not the law !!!

Amendment IV (1791)
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Its been agreed upon that authority to act requires a warrant or probable cause !!!

We know there was no warrant naming a specific person !!!
While you had reasonable suspicion to make the stop is without question !!!
I say you did, anyway !!!

Everyone is most likely familiar with a police line up where a witness is brought in to identify a suspect !!! That is essentially the position you were in out on the street !!!

You lawfully activated your emergency equipment and pulled the guy over !!!
He pulled over and didn't try to flee !!! That's in he favor !!! He acted the way he was supposed to as a reasonable person should !!! ( using the legal fiction of a court, "a reasonable person" standard)

How do you get probable cause !!!
You start an investigation !!!
Sounds like you did that and as you say, "Turns out the driver and vehicle were not the BOLO subject." You never got probable cause or you would have arrested the guy !!!

At some point without probable cause you pointed a weapon at the guy !!!

You accosted a member of the public freely going about his business in a reckless and heedless manner and placed him at gun point !!! Under the Use-of-Force Continuum you went from Officer Presence to Lethal Force without probable cause !!!
??? Can you explain how and why that happened
The Constitution does not grant that authority to anyone !!! End of story !!!

The ball is in your court !!! Respond !!! Comply, reply and obey !!! You know the deal !!!

There is no need for probable cause for a felony traffic stop/high risk stop, or any traffic stop. A traffic stop only needs reasonable suspicion, that includes felony traffic stop. Felony stop or non-felony stop is what we called investigative detention.

Probable cause only if you need to make an arrest or obtain a warrant.

Didn’t they teach you this at your fake cop school?

[Du Ma]

Originally Posted by Bitey

It seems some folks have confused "qualified" immunity with "total" immunity. No cop should have the latter. All of them should have the former.

Why any cop would expose himself to legal liability because his training or instruction was faulty is beyond me. So, as many suggest here, they will do everything to avoid that exposure. This is what "policiing" will become:

1) Sit in squad car on quiet side street
2) Drink coffee and read newspaper
3) Wait for call of crime in progress
4) Receive said call; take sweet time getting there
5) Show up after the fact and document the aftermath
6) Collect paycheck
7) Repeat steps 1 through 7 until it's time to collect pension check

There is no total immunity (only qualified immunity) in LE otherwise Derek Chauvin would not be in jail for murder and waiting for his trial for almost a year. I think that’s the problem with people is they can’t tell the difference between “total” and “qualified”

[mtl1]

Originally Posted by Mathguy

I'd like to see the money trail behind this proposal. I highly suspect that the NY Trial Lawyers Association(s) etc. were more than happy to throw big money at some of the politicians there to help them make the "socially conscious" decision. lol.

NY has many litigation plays that are not widely allowed in the rest of the country.

That's what I was wondering. The tax payer will be paying for it one way or the other and in more ways than just in money.

[phma]

Originally Posted by Bitey

It seems some folks have confused "qualified" immunity with "total" immunity. No cop should have the latter. All of them should have the former.

Why any cop would expose himself to legal liability because his training or instruction was faulty is beyond me. So, as many suggest here, they will do everything to avoid that exposure. This is what "policiing" will become:

1) Sit in squad car on quiet side street
2) Drink coffee and read newspaper
3) Wait for call of crime in progress
4) Receive said call; take sweet time getting there
5) Show up after the fact and document the aftermath
6) Collect paycheck
7) Repeat steps 1 through 7 until it's time to collect pension check

??? Do tell how is that different than what we have now

Most arrivals of police are after the crime has occurred !!! Even most auto accidents where a crime is charged the police are not present or direct witness to. They arrive later !!!

Maybe the people that need to understand, what you say needs understanding, is the Judges giving Qualified Immunity !!! Not the people questioning it !!!

[Du Ma]

Originally Posted by phma

??? Do tell how is that different than what we have now

Most arrivals of police are after the crime has occurred !!! Even most auto accidents where a crime is charged the police are not present or direct witness to. They arrive later !!!

Maybe the people that need to understand, what you say needs understanding, is the Judges giving Qualified Immunity !!! Not the people questioning it !!!

You should tell that to widow and 7 children of the Boulder cop who was killed and gave up his life responding to an active shooter call. Maybe he should have waited until the shooter ran out of ammo and then go to the scene to clean up the bodies after

[phma]

Originally Posted by Du Ma

You should tell that to widow and 7 children of the Boulder cop who was killed and gave up his life responding to an active shooter call. Maybe he should have waited until the shooter ran out of ammo and then go to the scene to clean up the bodies after

People say that's what is going to happen( delayed responce) without QI but it didn't in this situation !!!

??? Why is that

??? If that's what cops are supposed to do, delay responding, why didn't he do it

Maybe there are more honest community oriented cops out there who will do the job then people think !!!

I'd say he has received all the immunity he's ever going to get and there are more like him out there !!!

[Du Ma]

Originally Posted by phma

People say that's what is going to happen( delayed responce) without QI but it didn't in this situation !!!

??? Why is that

??? If that's what cops are supposed to do, delay responding, why didn't he do it

Maybe there are more honest community oriented cops out there who will do the job then people think !!!

I'd say he has received all the immunity he's ever going to get and there are more like him out there !!!

Depends on city and how much they have defunded their police force.

Takes anywhere between 3-5 minutes to respond to a code 3 (aka emergency 911 call) response.

Believe it or not, cops do not have teleport machine where they can teleport themselves across space to in-progress active crime scene. Sorry to disappoint

[phma]

Originally Posted by Du Ma

Depends on city and how much they have defunded their police force.

Takes anywhere between 3-5 minutes to respond to a code 3 (aka emergency 911 call) response.

Believe it or not, cops do not have teleport machine where they can teleport themselves across space to in-progress active crime scene. Sorry to disappoint

Don't stop informing there !!!
I'm very interested to hear where their other magical powers come from !!!

Don't get me wrong !!!
I want cops paid well and departments funded well but I also want ones that respect the people, operate within the law not trampling on the rights of others just b/c they can with no accountability !!!