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We are literally obligated to jump in, when NATO countries are in danger.
Do you personally want to jump in under nuclear bombs?
China and Russia are not Afghanistan, they have mighty armies.
The USA uses a clever policy: it bribes local politicians and agitates young people.
That's how it managed to bribe Ukrainian politicians who are destroying the economy of the Ukraine now.
what's your take on this situation, is it going to go hot?
seems odd that we may be very close to going to war here and practically no one is even interested in the topic.
Have no idea if it goes hot or not. I think not, no reason to, Russia seems to not mind the status, Ukraine cannot do anything about it anyway. I mean there will be the usual sniper, artillery fire, little this and that, but no 100k troop and thousands of tanks crossing to attack.
The only thing that does stick in my head is if Russia decides they want to formally absorb east Ukraine area into Russia, then Russia will send tens of thousands of troops there to secure the area and start rebuilding.
But I think it is ridiculous to ignore the reality on the ground and what the people want, all out of politics, and zero care for the people.
Many seem to want to forget how those borders were drawn and why, and people are suppose to just accept it all forever, conveniently after others, already addressed their border issues either by diplomacy or force, many years ago.
The cold hard reality is those people in the east and Crimea, have not wanted to be part of Kiev for a long time, and Kiev has continually treated them worse and worse, and the final straw was the 2014 revolt, which ousted the president the east and Crimea voted for, ousted by those who voted against him. You think people complaining about the influence of red or blue states here is bad, it is full in practice there. You can even see the voting maps on how distinct the differences are. Imagine if Maryland ousted Trump and installed Hillary? Or Virginia ousted Obama and installed McCain? Those states that voted for the ousted leader would not be too happy.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k350
Have no idea if it goes hot or not. I think not, no reason to, Russia seems to not mind the status, Ukraine cannot do anything about it anyway. I mean there will be the usual sniper, artillery fire, little this and that, but no 100k troop and thousands of tanks crossing to attack.
The only thing that does stick in my head is if Russia decides they want to formally absorb east Ukraine area into Russia, then Russia will send tens of thousands of troops there to secure the area and start rebuilding.
But I think it is ridiculous to ignore the reality on the ground and what the people want, all out of politics, and zero care for the people.
Many seem to want to forget how those borders were drawn and why, and people are suppose to just accept it all forever, conveniently after others, already addressed their border issues either by diplomacy or force, many years ago.
The cold hard reality is those people in the east and Crimea, have not wanted to be part of Kiev for a long time, and Kiev has continually treated them worse and worse, and the final straw was the 2014 revolt, which ousted the president the east and Crimea voted for, ousted by those who voted against him. You think people complaining about the influence of red or blue states here is bad, it is full in practice there. You can even see the voting maps on how distinct the differences are. Imagine if Maryland ousted Trump and installed Hillary? Or Virginia ousted Obama and installed McCain? Those states that voted for the ousted leader would not be too happy.
Russia has any ageing fleet of tanks, and doesn't have the economic power to replace them in the same numbers.
Russia might be able to bully Ukraine, however in terms of NATO it would be no match for an organisation that spends the best part of $1 Trillion a year on defence.
Even during the Cold War the plan was to destroy Russian tanks with smaller battlefield nuclear weapons and it should be noted that advances in technology mean that tactical nuclear weapons are becoming more sophisticated and increasingly precise.
As for the Russian propaganda and lies, we have been here before, which is why Russia is currently an international pariah, with all kinds of increasing sanctions, and which is Russian diplomats are being sent back from whence they came.
it would be no match for an organisation that spends the best part of $1 Trillion a year on defence.
It's like saying that a US doctor is much better than any other because she charges $300 for a 10-minute visit.
Quote:
As for the Russian propaganda and lies, we have been here before, which is why Russia is currently an international pariah, with all kinds of increasing sanctions, and which is Russian diplomats are being sent back from whence they came.
I don't think it's a good idea to announce that you're American in many parts of the world now.
It's especially unsafe in the countries that got freedom recently. Try it in Afghanistan and the Ukraine.
Your suggestion that is more like if the US gifted part of Pennsylvania to NY is laughable.
What is laughable about it?
Fact is the Soviet government expanded the borders of the Ukrainian SSR, for the purpose of the USSR, not for the people there. Soviet Union no longer exists, many want the borders back to what it was before they were redrawn.
My analogy is just fine, because you do not understand it does not make it wrong. If the US gov gave part of PA to NY, and gave NYC to NJ, then the US ceased to exist, well, many people in the former PA part will want back with PA, and those in NYC would want back with NY.
I am not understanding what you cannot comprehend about this. But the baseline is your politicos are clouding your vision about what actual residents' desires are. Your politics are the type that would kill 99% of the people to liberate them, and call it a success, lol.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave New World
Russia has any ageing fleet of tanks, and doesn't have the economic power to replace them in the same numbers.
What does this have to do with anything?
I mean hell, the Taliban and associated groups hardly had a single tank, yet the US is still there, 20 years.
And what does Ukraine have? Ukraine has the fraction of the military and economy Russia has, and this is an issue between Ukraine and Russia.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave New World
Russia might be able to bully Ukraine, however in terms of NATO it would be no match for an organisation that spends the best part of $1 Trillion a year on defence.
Again, what in the hell does this have to do with anything? NATO is not part of any of this, this is an issue between Ukraine and Russia.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave New World
Even during the Cold War the plan was to destroy Russian tanks with smaller battlefield nuclear weapons and it should be noted that advances in technology mean that tactical nuclear weapons are becoming more sophisticated and increasingly precise.
Ok, again, this ahs to do with what in regards to Ukraine? You are kind of going off the rails now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave New World
As for the Russian propaganda and lies, we have been here before, which is why Russia is currently an international pariah, with all kinds of increasing sanctions, and which is Russian diplomats are being sent back from whence they came.
Again, this has to do with what between Russia and Ukraine? Are you sure you meant to quote my post? Because your responses have nothing to do with what I wrote.
Whilst the situation is even more serious in relation to Taiwan, although the Chinese have a lot more to lose in terms of global trade than the Russians. The Russian economy has been the subject of sanctions and any move against Crimea would force the Germans hand in relation to Russian gas supplies.
Who will mind if two countries will join except a bunch of politicians?
One country is the Republic of China, the other is the People's Republic of China.
The Germans didn't mind when East Germany and West Germany joined.
Russia has any ageing fleet of tanks, and doesn't have the economic power to replace them in the same numbers.
Russia might be able to bully Ukraine, however in terms of NATO it would be no match for an organisation that spends the best part of $1 Trillion a year on defence.
Even during the Cold War the plan was to destroy Russian tanks with smaller battlefield nuclear weapons and it should be noted that advances in technology mean that tactical nuclear weapons are becoming more sophisticated and increasingly precise.
As for the Russian propaganda and lies, we have been here before, which is why Russia is currently an international pariah, with all kinds of increasing sanctions, and which is Russian diplomats are being sent back from whence they came.
Hello to you BNW from the front lines of the "unrecognized" LDNR republics, from one of the typical small towns in the area.
Even without understanding the language, who do you think these people are?
I'll give you a hint - the lyrics of the song that the girls are singing - "This is our last battle, we are going home." ( Meaning we are going back to Russia.)
There is a reason you see, why Russia can "bully Ukraine."
"Russian propaganda and lies" is not the only thing that exists out there.
There is such thing as "Western propaganda and lies" as well.
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