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So we agree that to respond to his "ploy" would have cost the officers nothing with respect to their arrest, and even their overall control of the detainee, but likely would have saved Floyd's life.
Not exactly a "ploy" to be dismissed out of hand, then. I think we both agree the argument I was responding to is nonsense in this context, then?
Now the "why" he started saying it prior to being on the ground with Chauvin's knee on his neck? I dunno. Maybe he really was claustrophobic - he said that at one point, too, right? People having anxiety/panic attacks frequently experience that very sensation, no?
Point being, the reasonable course of action was to get him out of the vehicle, get him calm, and then complete the arrest. Call for a larger transport vehicle if necessary, I'm sure Minneapolis PD has something larger than a cruiser or SUV in their motor pool.
What is not reasonable is to remain kneeling on a detainee's neck for 9+ minutes, LONG after he has stopped physically resisting.
I couldn't watch the video. No one however bad a human they might be being deserves what happened to this guy. The cops who stood around and watched are to blame as well but I have no idea what charges would be brought. At a minimum they need to lose their jobs.
It doesn't matter what color the guy getting arrested is. It doesn't matter what color the cop is. All the arguments about biased jury and riots and Maxine are just diversionary tactics that will fail.
You don't cut off the air flow to a person for 8-9 minutes, I don't care who they are, I don't care who you are.
They jury got it right.
I’ve heard it said many times that because of what Maxine Waters said, the conviction would be over turned. If that happened. The judge would fear for his life. Cities would be destroyed. I don’t think they would risk it.
It won't be overturned. It might be declared a mistrial and re tried, but I doubt it
The American legal system is designed to not be intimidated
The issue is finding people to do jury duty. I don't think I would want to be on a jury today and I'm not alone
So we agree that to respond to his "ploy" would have cost the officers nothing with respect to their arrest, and even their overall control of the detainee, but likely would have saved Floyd's life.
I agree that if they had checked on him instead of assuming there wasn't a problem, Floyd likely wouldn't have died. But it wasn't unreasonable to believe Floyd was just saying it either because he was high, or because he didn't want to be arrested. He had been making the same claims while standing, and while kicking his way out of the cop car. He also said he was claustrophobic, but is he? Or did he just not want to go into the police car? Might it be possible that a "criminal" might claim to be claustrophobic as a ploy to keep from being put in a police car?
In any case, the primary issue isn't that George Floyd said he couldn't breath, but that the people on the street saw that he wasn't breathing and alerted Chauvin. Who didn't check on Floyd, or pull his knee off, or roll him onto his side.
I'm still not convinced that this rises to the level of second-degree murder, but there was absolutely wrong-doing on the part of Chauvin and the other officers. If I was the officer on the scene, I would have at bare minimum rolled Floyd onto his side when he didn't have a pulse. Which was almost 3 minutes before parademics arrived.
I could have accepted a manslaughter charge. Murder is a stretch, and comes off as political.
Chauvin will likely get 30 years due to the extenuating circumstances which include, but are not limited to:
Committing the murder in the presence of a child
Committing the murder while committing another felony (assault)
Committing the murder with cruelty
Committing the murder while acting in a position of authority
These legal theories we have now are so stupid. Maybe with the felony drug use of Floyd he felony murdered himself . This trial was a political, racial joke in my view. I have a hard time accepting that Chauvin's excess use of force is felony assault that kicks off the murder charges to begin with. Chauvin was just negligent in his official police duty of making an arrest and maybe it was manslaughter at most.
One thing I am not clear on is: when GF was in the back seat of the police car, and then he carried on that he is claustrophic or whatever, why did they take him, or how did he end up on the ground outside the car?
Who would care if he is claustrphobic or not, he is in the car already
To me, Id think that once inside the car, your not going out again, were driving off...
Has anyone else thought of this? or maybe I am missing something?
and also, what was DC purpose for kneeling on him for the length of time he did?
he was handcuffed and laying face down.....
As I have argued before on another thread, I don’t believe that Chauvin’s neck restraint caused Floyd’s death.
On the other hand, Kueng’s pressure on his back might have contributed to his death, but I haven’t seen details (quantity of pressure, duration and timing). However, when he is tried, we can anticipate that the prosecution will do what they can to obtain a conviction (though they might pull their punches a little given his race, they might not re-assemble their anti-Chauvin “dream team”, and there won’t be anywhere near as much public anger directed at him), and the arguments they raise could help Chauvin. Also, top experts might be more willing to help his defense, which might also help Chauvin.
Chauvin was slow in abandoning the procedure and switching to life-saving. I think there are good arguments in his favor, though I can understand people demanding perfection of him.
As a result of this verdict (and more generally the current angry anti-police, anti-white climate), I foresee white police officers being reluctant to become involved in crimes being committed by blacks. As a result, innocent blacks are going to suffer - some will be injured, some will die. This will cause a change in the climate of opinion towards a more balanced one. (Though I’m not optimistic it will make much difference to the activists, and therefore to the powers-that-be.)
I think it was unwise (and unfair to Chauvin) - though maybe legally or politically unavoidable - to hold the trial while there is still so much anger and even violence. I presume that an appeal could result in a retrial. So I believe that, in any retrial, after time has elapsed and tempers have cooled, the facts will more likely be calmly and fairly evaluated on their merits, so he would stand a much better chance.
I'm still not convinced that this rises to the level of second-degree murder, but there was absolutely wrong-doing on the part of Chauvin and the other officers. If I was the officer on the scene, I would have at bare minimum rolled Floyd onto his side when he didn't have a pulse. Which was almost 3 minutes before parademics arrived.
I could have accepted a manslaughter charge. Murder is a stretch, and comes off as political.
It's the felony murder law that made it possible. That Chauvin committed felony assault and since Floyd died, it automagically is murder. But I don't believe it was felony assault, and even so prosecution didn't have to prosecute for murder, that was due to political, racial pressure IMO.
One thing I am not clear on is: when GF was in the back seat of the police car, and then he carried on that he is claustrophic or whatever, why did they take him, or how did he end up on the ground outside the car?
Who would care if he is claustrphobic or not, he is in the car already
To me, Id think that once inside the car, your not going out again, were driving off...
Has anyone else thought of this? or maybe I am missing something?
and also, what was DC purpose for kneeling on him for the length of time he did?
he was handcuffed and laying face down.....
I think Floyd was sprawling out and they couldn't get the doors shut on him.
We can only guess how many times people have died unjustly at the hands of police who covered it up.
Much fewer, I would guess, than the number of people who will die because of Democrat policies in major cities....and when you factor in the areas that were burned and looted, where businesses will never come back...and the 7 year old kids shot in drive thrus.....
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. This trial was a political, racial joke in my view. I have a hard time accepting that Chauvin's excess use of force is felony assault that kicks off the murder charges to begin with. Chauvin was just negligent in his official police duty of making an arrest and maybe it was manslaughter at most.