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"Countless?" 44 people in a study is a tad different from hundreds of millions.
Countless was referring to the number of studies, and I have no idea why you have decided hundreds of millions is some benchmark that needs to be compared with.
Which reminds me, you had said before there weren't enough cohorts in previous trials involving mRNA vaccines, yet I've still never heard you answer how many there were or how many were enough. I understand you don't have a background on vaccine development so it's just an uneducated swag, but curious how you say there weren't enough cohorts where you clearly don't know how many there were?
You people tend to think you develop some instinct as to where these numbers should be by watching enough youtube videos, I'd like to know what actual numbers you're basing this on.
Countless was referring to the number of studies, and I have no idea why you have decided hundreds of millions is some benchmark that needs to be compared with.
Which reminds me, you had said before there weren't enough cohorts in previous trials involving mRNA vaccines, yet I've still never heard you answer how many there were or how many were enough. I understand you don't have a background on vaccine development so it's just an uneducated swag, but curious how you say there weren't enough cohorts where you clearly don't know how many there were?
You people tend to think you develop some instinct as to where these numbers should be by watching enough youtube videos, I'd like to know what actual numbers you're basing this on.
You've shared studies that had double digit cohorts. That's obviously too small. You've shared a number of studies with such small numbers they are inconsequential, yet you hold them up as evidence that mRNA vaccines have been tested for decades.
I don't have a number for you. The current studies have about 40k people in them. That's reasonable, but you still won't catch a host of complications that occur in populations at rates of 1 in 100k and so on. So things will be missed. That's all okay, but they can't go around claiming with certainty the vaccines are 'safe.' They're not safe for the subsets of the population not picked up by the study. And they most certainly should not be mandated.
You've shared studies that had double digit cohorts. That's obviously too small. You've shared a number of studies with such small numbers they are inconsequential, yet you hold them up as evidence that mRNA vaccines have been tested for decades.
I don't have a number for you. The current studies have about 40k people in them. That's reasonable, but you still won't catch a host of complications that occur in populations at rates of 1 in 100k and so on. So things will be missed. That's all okay, but they can't go around claiming with certainty the vaccines are 'safe.' They're not safe for the subsets of the population not picked up by the study. And they most certainly should not be mandated.
The vaccines have now been given to millions of people. The number of reports - not even confirmed due to the vaccines - of serious adverse effects are a drop in the ocean compared to that number, and the numbers of deaths and disabilities due to infection with the virus are exponentially greater than the number plausibly due to the vaccines.
You've shared studies that had double digit cohorts. That's obviously too small. You've shared a number of studies with such small numbers they are inconsequential, yet you hold them up as evidence that mRNA vaccines have been tested for decades.
How many studies were there though? Do you know?
We both know you aren't answering because you have no idea. You really don't see how silly it is to say there weren't enough cohorts in past mRNA studies when you have no idea how many there have been?
Quote:
Originally Posted by kmom2
I don't have a number for you.
I know. So on top of saying there haven't been enough cohorts without knowing how many, there is no real "enough" since you have no training or education in vaccine development to even take a guess how many is enough.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kmom2
That's all okay, but they can't go around claiming with certainty the vaccines are 'safe.'
Sure I can. Nobody is implying safe means 100%, since that isn't how the word "safe" is used in this context. Airplane travel is safe. Eating grapes is safe. Taking antibiotics is safe. San Antonio is safe. Covid vaccines are safe.
The vaccines have now been given to millions of people. The number of reports - not even confirmed due to the vaccines - of serious adverse effects are a drop in the ocean compared to that number, and the numbers of deaths and disabilities due to infection with the virus are exponentially greater than the number plausibly due to the vaccines.
There are tens of thousands of reports, and thousands of deaths that may very well be from these vaccines. That 'drop in the ocean' are human beings. All vaccines--or drugs--carry the risk of injury and death. It's part of the official policy--sacrifice the few for the many. This is called utilitarian ethics--to judge whether something is good or bad based solely on the numbers.
I've also had family members, including myself, who've suffered with Covid so I don't minimize Covid. I was happy when the vaccines were approved, because it would provide a tool in the fight against Covid for those at high risk.
That changed when I got an email from my daughter's university forcing her to get the shot. It dawned on me: this isn't going to be optional. This is where I draw the line. If you mandate vaccines that will knowingly harm or even kill a subset of the population that probably wouldn't die from Covid, what would you call that? You'd call that an acceptable trade off. I'd call it something else.
Hospitals are sources of infection enough currently. We should try to do what we can to reduce infectious disease transmission to our patients.
While I fully support vaccination, I also support individual rights. If people (other than healthcare workers) don't want to get vaccinated, that is their right. I think that is a terrible decision, but it should be up to them.
For those using public services (schools), there can and should be mandatory vaccinations. We had to get small pox, polio, and MMR vaccinations to attend public schools when I was a kid. No one bitched about it then.
I am in total agreement with Betsy Larson. I also agree that this is not informed consent. It’s so wrong to force people to choose between their job and their health.
Texas is an "at will employment" state. An employer can fire someone at will and an employee can leave at will. May that disgruntled employee leave in peace and not return with a firearm.
That changed when I got an email from my daughter's university forcing her to get the shot. It dawned on me: this isn't going to be optional.
The university is not "forcing" anyone to get a shot. No one is being strapped down on a table and being jabbed against their will.
Universities have rules of conduct that are grounds for expulsion. Admission and attendance at college is not a right, it's a privilege that can be revoked at any time. Cheat on a test, show up drunk at class, be disruptive and get expelled. Show up to school without a Covid vaccination is also a legitimate reason to revoke attendance if the university so decides.
Decisions have consequences. Being barred from college for refusing to get vaccinated is not "force," it's a choice that the student makes.
The university is not "forcing" anyone to get a shot. No one is being strapped down on a table and being jabbed against their will.
Universities have rules of conduct that are grounds for expulsion. Admission and attendance at school is not a right, it's a privelege that can be revoked at any time. Cheat on a test, show up drunk at class, be disruptive and get expelled. Show up to school without a Covid vaccination, also a fully legitimate reason to revoke attendance if the university so decides.
Decisions have consequences. Being barred from college for refusing to get vaccinated is not "force," it's a choice that the student makes.
It's coercion, not true consent. She had four years completed of a five year program. She/we could not afford to walk away. And it's not right to coerce people because they aren't rich enough to pay for college twice. So she got the shot under economic duress. I guess medical freedom only applies to billionaires now.
Cheer it on all you want, but if it was your kid who is pre-disposed to vaccine injury, you may feel differently. So much for 'protect the vulnerable.'
I have another daughter who suffered a serious vaccine injury (from a meningitis vaccine), and that past injury might not qualify for a medical exemption for the Covid shot even with a doctor's opinion. So these mandates put people like her in a horrible position. My husband almost died from an allergic reaction to his first shot. These adverse events are not as rare as they are claiming, so this vaccine should be undertaken completely free from coercion.
Texas is an "at will employment" state. An employer can fire someone at will and an employee can leave at will. May that disgruntled employee leave in peace and not return with a firearm.
Tell MissTerri that it is a choice between their job and the patients' health.
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