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Old 04-29-2021, 09:37 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
1,740 posts, read 953,589 times
Reputation: 2825

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As someone who lives in central Portland, only blocks away from a lot of the chaos, I would like to add my perspective.

First of all, it makes perfect sense. I say this because it is the result of a poorly thought out, rigid, manichaean political theology called progressivism. Contemporary progressivism is more akin to a system of religious beliefs than it does a system of political thought. Progressives live in a very black and white, us against them, world. They don’t see grey, or have any sense of ambiguity or doubt. Reality is filtered through the lens of their world view. When reality contradicts their “theology”, they don’t adjust or change their beliefs. They deny, ignore, misinterpret, or explain away reality so their fragile belief system can remain unchallenged.

The establishment in Portland is 100% progressive. The mayor, the city commissioners, the district attorney, the bureaucrats, the educational system, the cultural elite, Multnomah County officials, state senators and representatives, etc are all progressive Democrats. Aside from one night of looting downtown, the protests that started last summer were at first non-violent, although they were disruptive. But at a certain point, things evolved and the “protests” turned destructive, violent, and nihilistic. But the progressives, who can only see things in a rigid, dualistic way, saw the protestors as being on “their” side, since the “protestors” were opposed by Trump. Therefore, they allowed mayhem, destruction, and violence continue, since being on the same side of an issue as the right would be heresy.

But now Trump is out of office and things have gotten awkward. The progressive establishment no longer needs to tolerate the rioting to prove they are on the right side of history. But how to put the genie back in the bottle? The city has belatedly started cracking down, but is it too little, too late?

It’s commonly thought that the people of Portland must support this since we are the ones who elect our public officials. But I disagree. People are fed up. Although local elected offices are technically non-partisan, this is a one party Democratic town. The only way to get elected is to be endorsed and supported by the “correct” left wing special interest groups. So far no one gets through these gate keepers to elective office. What Portland needs is for voters to organize themselves to counter the entrenched, ideological special interest groups. There is a grass roots group that recently formed, The Coalition to Save Portland ( www.savepdx.org ) , that I am hoping can effective some positive changes.
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Old 04-29-2021, 09:43 PM
 
Location: Howard County, Maryland
16,465 posts, read 10,478,892 times
Reputation: 36306
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeutralZone View Post
There is a grass roots group that recently formed, The Coalition to Save Portland ( www.savepdx.org ) , that I am hoping can effective some positive changes.
Remember that old line from the Vietnam War? "We had to destroy the village in order to save it." I honestly wonder if Portland will have to be destroyed before its people wake up enough to want to save it. For your sake, and for however many other normal people there are left in that city, I hope it won't have to come to that. But the past year has not filled me with a lot of hope on that score.
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Old 04-29-2021, 10:02 PM
 
Location: Stillwater, Oklahoma
30,976 posts, read 21,567,116 times
Reputation: 9675
Quote:
Originally Posted by bus man View Post
I've seen both videos. "Depressing" barely begins to describe it. I really felt for the shopowners in the second video who had to endure having their windows smashed out and having nutcases come in to their stores, not only to steal, but to just randomly knock stuff over for no apparent reason but to be destructive for its own sake.

Tell me, Stillwater, do people walk into stores in Tulsa and just knock stuff over for the fun of it? Do they constantly break windows and steal things? And do the police fail to show up time and time again, and when they do finally come, they say there's nothing they can do?

I've never been to Tulsa (unless you want to count getting off I-44 to pick up a snack from Wendy's once), but I've been to Seattle and Portland. And I have absolutely no desire to ever go back to those places again, despite the gorgeous natural scenery.
Now look, the last citi-data crime index for Portland is 431. For Tulsa it's higher at 570. You brought up Seattle. Its citi-data crime index is even lower at 397. Which city would you feel safer in? I sure don't think it would be Tulsa.

On the other hand, the citi-data crime index for the Red State city of Wichita is much lower at 290, but who on here would want to move there? It's even more ruler flat, treeless and boring than Tulsa. Further more, Kansas has just barely been able to attract more people to live there.
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Old 04-29-2021, 10:29 PM
 
4,067 posts, read 2,266,143 times
Reputation: 4384
Quote:
Originally Posted by notnamed View Post
If you love the first amendment just as much as the second, what’s the solution here? A hard crackdown on protesting is just as unpalatable as a gun seizure if you truly love our Constitution.
How can you think that rioting is the same as protesting. There’s part of your problem right there...
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Old 04-29-2021, 10:30 PM
 
4,067 posts, read 2,266,143 times
Reputation: 4384
Quote:
Originally Posted by kmom2 View Post
A hard crackdown on rioting does not violate the first amendment. People in Portland seem to have no idea where protesting ends and rioting begins.
There you go! So true!
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Old 04-29-2021, 10:40 PM
 
2,942 posts, read 1,631,853 times
Reputation: 1726
Quote:
Originally Posted by notnamed View Post
I’ve defended the protests here(while still calling for the violent offenders to be arrested). But we took a little driving tour around downtown for the first time in a few months and it’s gotten so bad. And the targets make no sense from any sort of social justice notion unlike the prior focus around the courthouse. Mercedes dealership, Tiffany store, Gucci? Those are all fine. Boys and Girls club, employment outreach offices, homeless missions, public parks and other things trying to help just a minute down the road...trashed. Even little mom and pop restaurants. Even the tone of the graffiti has changed with a lot of it calling out Ted Wheeler. It’s a marked difference from just last year.

While it’s been obvious it’s the anarchists not aligned to any real cause that are causing the real trouble. Something seems weird about the noticeable change in what is being targeted. The lack of enforcement of vandalism and petty crimes appears to have emboldened a new set of folks out to sow chaos. Which really isn’t a surprising result.

While we were already relocating this summer due to going to help out elderly parents starting to have health issues. It is sad to see this beautiful city we love so trashed. I hope they figure some way out of this mess. Not sure what that would be. Wheeler’s opponent last time was just an outright extremist. Neither cracking down nor appeasement had worked. Crossing the first amendment doesn’t work. Left, right, and anarchists are pissed. Needs a solid centrist that can rise about the division but I don’t know who that would be or where that would come from with the major political parties happy to just divide and drive extreme partisanship.
When Biden becomes president, we will have peace in our cities once more, and everything will return to normal. Opps.
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Old 04-29-2021, 10:40 PM
 
4,067 posts, read 2,266,143 times
Reputation: 4384
Quote:
Originally Posted by StillwaterTownie View Post
Look, seriously, folks, Seattle as well as Portland are quite far, far from dying. This is due to the very FACT those two cities are growing considerably faster in population than Red Cities, such as Tulsa and Wichita for starters. Really, who wants to move to those two cities? Nobody? I thought so! So no wonder Tulsa is so desperate for new residents that it will pay you $10,000 to move there to become a remote worker for a year. Can you ever imagine Seattle or Portland being forced to resort to doing something like this? NO WAY! Not even in a million years! No doubt, lots of people wouldn't move to Tulsa for a million dollars, because it's perceived to be as a pretty damned bad place to try to live!
It’s funny... the more you talk about how great Seattle and Portland are, the less I believe you.
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Old 04-29-2021, 10:47 PM
 
Location: Stillwater, Oklahoma
30,976 posts, read 21,567,116 times
Reputation: 9675
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeutralZone View Post
As someone who lives in central Portland, only blocks away from a lot of the chaos, I would like to add my perspective.

First of all, it makes perfect sense. I say this because it is the result of a poorly thought out, rigid, manichaean political theology called progressivism. Contemporary progressivism is more akin to a system of religious beliefs than it does a system of political thought. Progressives live in a very black and white, us against them, world. They don’t see grey, or have any sense of ambiguity or doubt. Reality is filtered through the lens of their world view. When reality contradicts their “theology”, they don’t adjust or change their beliefs. They deny, ignore, misinterpret, or explain away reality so their fragile belief system can remain unchallenged.

The establishment in Portland is 100% progressive. The mayor, the city commissioners, the district attorney, the bureaucrats, the educational system, the cultural elite, Multnomah County officials, state senators and representatives, etc are all progressive Democrats. Aside from one night of looting downtown, the protests that started last summer were at first non-violent, although they were disruptive. But at a certain point, things evolved and the “protests” turned destructive, violent, and nihilistic. But the progressives, who can only see things in a rigid, dualistic way, saw the protestors as being on “their” side, since the “protestors” were opposed by Trump. Therefore, they allowed mayhem, destruction, and violence continue, since being on the same side of an issue as the right would be heresy.

But now Trump is out of office and things have gotten awkward. The progressive establishment no longer needs to tolerate the rioting to prove they are on the right side of history. But how to put the genie back in the bottle? The city has belatedly started cracking down, but is it too little, too late?

It’s commonly thought that the people of Portland must support this since we are the ones who elect our public officials. But I disagree. People are fed up. Although local elected offices are technically non-partisan, this is a one party Democratic town. The only way to get elected is to be endorsed and supported by the “correct” left wing special interest groups. So far no one gets through these gate keepers to elective office. What Portland needs is for voters to organize themselves to counter the entrenched, ideological special interest groups. There is a grass roots group that recently formed, The Coalition to Save Portland ( www.savepdx.org ) , that I am hoping can effective some positive changes.
Whatever is going on in Portland doesn't sound being truly progressive to me. Life there is in misery for too many people. Simply put, progressivism means implementing policies and civic projects in a city to make life better. If you want to point to a truly successful progressive city, then point to Oklahoma City. Since the mid 1990s, voters there have periodically voted YES every time to keep the city sales tax up to finance new major civic improvement projects. It helps explain why there is a pro basketball team there, the Thunder. So as a result, it's interesting to note that Oklahoma City has grown faster in population than Portland since the year 2000. So looks aren't everything as in awesome mountain scenery to take your breath away as in Mt. Hood.
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Old 04-30-2021, 02:03 AM
 
Location: Metro Seattle Area - Born and Raised
4,855 posts, read 2,019,926 times
Reputation: 8573
Quote:
Originally Posted by SandraMoore66 View Post
It’s funny... the more you talk about how great Seattle and Portland are, the less I believe you.
...Well, speaking for Seattle, you really don’t want to come here at this time since the entire city is in both a crisis and in chaos, with no end in sight... The police are retiring, quitting or moving out to the more conservative suburbs in record numbers. From July to December 2020, they lost close to 200 cops and from January to March 2021, another 66 cops jump ship. The police chief finally admitted that they have a serious retention/moral problem AND not enough cops to patrol and control crime in the city.

A Priority One call from 911 now takes 9-10 minutes for an armed officer to respond. I’m not the smartest guy in the room, but I can tell you that 9-10 minutes is a long time if you’re being murdered.

Portland is basically in the same boat since their cops are hauling @zz as fast as they can AND all the surrounding police agencies in the metro Portland area have REFUSED to send their cops to assist Portland police since they don’t want to put their officers in any possible “legal” harms way since the DA for Portland refuses to charge criminals with an actual crime... To include resisting arrest or even assaulting a police officer during a riot.

When any city loose anywhere from 20% to 25% of its police force, for any reason, they’re about to enter the Twilight Zone for several years.
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Old 04-30-2021, 02:34 AM
 
Location: Various
9,049 posts, read 3,505,448 times
Reputation: 5470
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeutralZone View Post
When reality contradicts their “theology”, they don’t adjust or change their beliefs. They deny, ignore, misinterpret, or explain away reality so their fragile belief system can remain unchallenged.
Outstanding post. Thanks for sharing your firsthand knowledge.

This passage on progressives is exceptionally accurate. The second sentence is exactly the playsheet of the left on this forum.
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