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Old 04-30-2021, 11:00 AM
 
19,573 posts, read 8,447,581 times
Reputation: 10096

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
It seems, and this is not surprising, that many have some degree of possible immunity from previous exposures. And we have known this about many infectious agents. And about Covid 19 data from other parts of the world having more natural immunity.

As a Covid 19 survivor I was in such a study last year regarding the MMR vaccine and related antibody titers.

But 'naturally immune' does not equate to 40-60% having anything like complete immunity.
Well, nothing is perfect apparently. Including these "vaccines," as you yourself have noted, which clearly do not provide "complete immunity" either.

Which is better? I do not care what you or any so-called "expert" says, the answer for the vast majority of people is our unadulterated immunity system.

In fact, there is a lot more going on with our immunity systems than any human being or "expert" knows about. It is extremely complex and it works remarkably well in the vast majority of cases, as long as we do not mistreat it, abuse it, starve it, or monkey it up.
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Old 04-30-2021, 11:09 AM
 
18,737 posts, read 8,343,958 times
Reputation: 4113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartacus713 View Post
Well, nothing is perfect apparently. Including these "vaccines," as you yourself have noted, which clearly do not provide "complete immunity" either.

Which is better? I do not care what you or any so-called "expert" says, the answer for the vast majority of people is our unadulterated immunity system.

In fact, there is a lot more going on with our immunity systems than any human being or "expert" knows about. It is extremely complex and it works remarkably well in the vast majority of cases, as long as we do not mistreat it, abuse it, starve it, or monkey it up.
The vaccines are obviously much more useful and effective with inducing useful and effective immunity in US populations vs any 'natural immunity'.
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Old 04-30-2021, 11:16 AM
 
Location: New Market, MD
2,573 posts, read 3,482,473 times
Reputation: 3259
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenPineTree View Post
It was 40k a day back in September 2020, and no vaccines. Not saying these vaccines aren't having an effect, but back around January, we already had passed the apex of our second wave, and were going down when mass vaccinations began.



I agree. However, I seriously believe 4th wave that kind of started in March is crushed by vaccination. The poster I responded to is claiming cases and deaths are still where they were in January and that's why I included those numbers.
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Old 04-30-2021, 11:57 AM
 
19,573 posts, read 8,447,581 times
Reputation: 10096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
The vaccines are obviously much more useful and effective with inducing useful and effective immunity in US populations vs any 'natural immunity'.
Have you no shame? They are not. Most people respond to this virus in a way that is entirely natural and normal, with many experiencing no noticeable symptoms at all, many others nothing worse than a case of the sniffles, and a smaller percentage something closer to a case of the flu.

And many others are just 'naturally immune,' apparently because of past encounters with coronavirus strains that are sufficiently similar to stimulate an effective immune response from our immunity systems. I get it that you want to parse words around that in order to try to scare people in an attempt to make them uncertain and hopefully more dependent on people such as yourself. But we all have some degree of common sense understanding of how immunity works.

It is so desirable right now that everyone be able to have confidence and trust in medical professionals, such as yourself. It literally turns my stomach to see the extent that you are shilling for these "vaccines" and the larger control oriented agenda that is associated with it. Rather than engendering trust, your are promoting distrust with these sorts of remarks. I know that is not what you want, but it is what you are doing.

These "vaccines" are not superior for producing immunity to this virus than most people's personal immunity systems. It is breathtaking to see you promoting such misinformation. Especially when we do not know or understand what sort of long term effects there will be from taking of these inoculations, since they were so rushed in their production.
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Old 04-30-2021, 12:11 PM
 
18,737 posts, read 8,343,958 times
Reputation: 4113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartacus713 View Post
Have you no shame? They are not. Most people respond to this virus in a way that is entirely natural and normal, with many experiencing no noticeable symptoms at all, many others nothing worse than a case of the sniffles, and a smaller percentage something closer to a case of the flu.

And many others are just 'naturally immune,' apparently because of past encounters with coronavirus strains that are sufficiently similar to stimulate an effective immune response from our immunity systems. I get it that you want to parse words around that in order to try to scare people in an attempt to make them uncertain and hopefully more dependent on people such as yourself. But we all have some degree of common sense understanding of how immunity works.

It is so desirable right now that everyone be able to have confidence and trust in medical professionals, such as yourself. It literally turns my stomach to see the extent that you are shilling for these "vaccines" and the larger control oriented agenda that is associated with it. Rather than engendering trust, your are promoting distrust with these sorts of remarks. I know that is not what you want, but it is what you are doing.

These "vaccines" are not superior for producing immunity to this virus than most people's personal immunity systems. It is breathtaking to see you promoting such misinformation. Especially when we do not know or understand what sort of long term effects there will be from taking of these inoculations, since they were so rushed in their production.
Let large groups of high risk people obtain natural immunity vs millions with the vaccines, and which group will see more hospitalizations and deaths?
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Old 04-30-2021, 12:18 PM
 
19,573 posts, read 8,447,581 times
Reputation: 10096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
Let large groups of high risk people obtain natural immunity vs millions with the vaccines, and which group will see more hospitalizations and deaths?
Obviously, there is no need to choose between those two options.

"High risk" people should take precautions. If they are sufficiently weak and vulnerable, then for them these inoculations may very well be their best choice. For these "high risk" individuals, give them the "vaccine".

But for most people, their best course is probably to take their chances and probably eventually get the virus, if they are not 'naturally immune' to it from the start, which they very well might be. Then their body and their immunity system will process like any other virus, and produce a natural immune response towards. And that without any interference with the functioning of their immunity system which may very well result in it being weakened against other diseases going forward.

Unless it is absolutely necessary, it is better to not intervene in a highly complex, normally well-functioning system like this. It generally works better on its own, without us trying to "help" in extraordinary ways.
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Old 04-30-2021, 12:22 PM
 
18,737 posts, read 8,343,958 times
Reputation: 4113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartacus713 View Post
Obviously, there is no need to choose between those two options.

"High risk" people should take precautions. If they are sufficiently weak and vulnerable, then for them these inoculations may very well be their best choice. For these "high risk" individuals, give them the "vaccine".

But for most people, their best course is probably to take their chances and probably eventually get the virus, which their body and their immunity system will process like any other virus, and produce a natural immune response towards. And that without any interference with the functioning of their immunity system which may very well result in it being weakened against other diseases going forward.

Unless it is absolutely necessary, it is better to not intervene in a highly complex, normally well functioning system like this. It generally works better on its own, without us trying to "help" in extraordinary ways.
The only humane way is the vaccines. If we had pre-made vaccines in 2019, how many US dead by today from Covid 19 vs vaccines?

What will save India?
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Old 04-30-2021, 12:33 PM
 
23,177 posts, read 12,054,970 times
Reputation: 29347
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arya Stark View Post
Or perhaps they will help us achieve heard immunity but allowing for corona infections that boost our natural defenses but don't kill the weakest among us.

With almost 200 million Americans receiving at least one dose and the numbers not really going down that much, it isn't looking like this vaccines is going to be the panacea the Karens wanted.

I would also note in Israel they are still suffering deaths and cases... with a very high percentage of the population vaccinated early on.
You seem to have "heard" a lot. How about ome references? Here's some hard data on Israel to show covid has been nearly stopped in it's tracks by the vaccination, whose population has not been fully vaccinated.

COVID-19 infections are decreasing in Israel, with 115 new infections reported on average each day. That’s 1% of the peak — the highest daily average reported on January 15.

Israel has administered at least 10,494,279 doses of COVID vaccines so far. Assuming every person needs 2 doses, that’s enough to have vaccinated about 58% of the country’s population.

https://graphics.reuters.com/world-c...tories/israel/
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Old 04-30-2021, 12:39 PM
 
23,177 posts, read 12,054,970 times
Reputation: 29347
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arya Stark View Post
I feel there is a suggestion that the vaccines don't work because the covid numbers are not dropping as much as one might expect. We remain around 50K cases and 900 deaths per day.

Very small drops.

I think a 16% decrease in a week and a 79% decrease over last few months is a drastic drop.



The current 7-day moving average of daily new cases (52,528) decreased 16.2% compared with the previous 7-day moving average (62,653). Compared with the highest peak on January 8, 2021 (249,669), the current 7-day average decreased 79.0%.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...iew/index.html
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Old 04-30-2021, 12:42 PM
 
23,177 posts, read 12,054,970 times
Reputation: 29347
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arya Stark View Post
Well the USA has had less... no doubt and Israel started with less.

But in theory, by now, they should be having zero cases and zero deaths.... and they aren't..

I wonder what the weather is like in Israel right now. (hint -- warm)

In what fantasyland should anyone have zero cases and zero deaths, ever? That's just silly. (The virus proved last year that warm weather does not drive it away.)
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