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Old 05-01-2021, 06:12 PM
 
Location: *
13,240 posts, read 4,925,181 times
Reputation: 3461

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrian000 View Post
I think black people and white people are both victims.
It doesn't matter how often or how bad it is...
Must be that American 'exceptionalism'.

From the 2020 Police Violence Report:

https://policeviolencereport.org

  • 1,127 people were killed by police in 2020.
  • 96% were killed by police shootings. Tasers, physical force, and police vehicles accounted for most other deaths.
  • Officers were charged with a crime in only 16 of these cases. One percent of all killings by police.
  • 8 of these 16 cases had video evidence. Most of these videos were captured by police body and dash cameras.
  • We were able to identify officers in 444 cases. At least 14 had shot or killed someone before. 5 had multiple prior shootings.
  • Most killings began with police responding to suspected non-violent offenses or cases where no crime was reported. 121 people were killed after police stopped them for a traffic violation.
    Some cities and states have begun to restrict or remove the police from traffic enforcement.

    In July 2020, the City of Berkeley passed legislation moving traffic enforcement duties from the police department to a new agency of unarmed civil servants. Other cities like Cambridge, MA, are considering similar measures. And in November 2020, Virginia lawmakers passed HB 5058 which prohibits police from stopping cars for equipment violations like a broken light or tinted windows.
  • 97 people were killed after police responded to reports of someone behaving erratically or having a mental health crisis.
    In Eugene, OR, mental health providers respond to these calls instead of police. In Los Angeles County, co-responder teams of mental health providers and police jointly respond to the most extreme mental health-related calls.

    An analysis by LA Sheriff’s Department estimatedthis program prevented as many as 751 use of force incidents and 9 killings by police in 2018.
  • 80 people killed by police were unarmed.
  • Most unarmed people killed by police were people of color.
  • Black people were more likely to be killed by police, more likely to be unarmed and less likely to be threatening someone when killed.
  • 65 people killed by police had a vehicle as a weapon.
  • 55 of these people were killed when police shot at a moving vehicle, a practice many experts say should be banned.
    Experts, law enforcement groups, and the US Department of Justice recommend that police be banned from shooting at people in moving vehicles. These shootings are particularly ineffective and dangerous, since shooting the driver can make the vehicle an uncontrollable threat to both officers and the public.

    Despite this, most police departments continue to allow officers to shoot people in these situations.
  • 180 people killed by police were allegedly armed with a knife.
    In many countries, police routinely disarm people who have knives without shooting them. For example, police in the United Kingdom encounter knife attacks at a similar rate as US police but handled these situations without using firearms in all but 3 cases in 2020.

    Consistent with international law, police in the UK are prohibited from using firearms except where strictly necessary after considering non-violent and less lethal options. Laws in most US states do not require police to exhaust all available alternatives prior to using deadly force.
  • Half of those killed by police were reportedly armed with a gun.
  • But 1 in 6 people with a gun were not threatening anyone when they were killed. They might have been de-escalated instead.
  • 58% of killings by police in 2020 — 629 deaths — were traffic stops, police responses to mental health crises, or situations where the person was not reportedly threatening anyone with a gun. Creating alternatives responses to these situations could substantially reduce this violence nationwide.
  • Which would mean substantially fewer people killed by police in almost every city.
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Old 05-01-2021, 06:36 PM
 
Location: NY
5,209 posts, read 1,796,721 times
Reputation: 3423
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest View Post
Must be that American 'exceptionalism'.

From the 2020 Police Violence Report:

https://policeviolencereport.org

  • 1,127 people were killed by police in 2020.
  • 96% were killed by police shootings. Tasers, physical force, and police vehicles accounted for most other deaths.
  • Officers were charged with a crime in only 16 of these cases. One percent of all killings by police.
  • 8 of these 16 cases had video evidence. Most of these videos were captured by police body and dash cameras.
  • We were able to identify officers in 444 cases. At least 14 had shot or killed someone before. 5 had multiple prior shootings.
  • Most killings began with police responding to suspected non-violent offenses or cases where no crime was reported. 121 people were killed after police stopped them for a traffic violation.
    Some cities and states have begun to restrict or remove the police from traffic enforcement.

    In July 2020, the City of Berkeley passed legislation moving traffic enforcement duties from the police department to a new agency of unarmed civil servants. Other cities like Cambridge, MA, are considering similar measures. And in November 2020, Virginia lawmakers passed HB 5058 which prohibits police from stopping cars for equipment violations like a broken light or tinted windows.
  • 97 people were killed after police responded to reports of someone behaving erratically or having a mental health crisis.
    In Eugene, OR, mental health providers respond to these calls instead of police. In Los Angeles County, co-responder teams of mental health providers and police jointly respond to the most extreme mental health-related calls.

    An analysis by LA Sheriff’s Department estimatedthis program prevented as many as 751 use of force incidents and 9 killings by police in 2018.
  • 80 people killed by police were unarmed.
  • Most unarmed people killed by police were people of color.
  • Black people were more likely to be killed by police, more likely to be unarmed and less likely to be threatening someone when killed.
  • 65 people killed by police had a vehicle as a weapon.
  • 55 of these people were killed when police shot at a moving vehicle, a practice many experts say should be banned.
    Experts, law enforcement groups, and the US Department of Justice recommend that police be banned from shooting at people in moving vehicles. These shootings are particularly ineffective and dangerous, since shooting the driver can make the vehicle an uncontrollable threat to both officers and the public.

    Despite this, most police departments continue to allow officers to shoot people in these situations.
  • 180 people killed by police were allegedly armed with a knife.
    In many countries, police routinely disarm people who have knives without shooting them. For example, police in the United Kingdom encounter knife attacks at a similar rate as US police but handled these situations without using firearms in all but 3 cases in 2020.

    Consistent with international law, police in the UK are prohibited from using firearms except where strictly necessary after considering non-violent and less lethal options. Laws in most US states do not require police to exhaust all available alternatives prior to using deadly force.
  • Half of those killed by police were reportedly armed with a gun.
  • But 1 in 6 people with a gun were not threatening anyone when they were killed. They might have been de-escalated instead.
  • 58% of killings by police in 2020 — 629 deaths — were traffic stops, police responses to mental health crises, or situations where the person was not reportedly threatening anyone with a gun. Creating alternatives responses to these situations could substantially reduce this violence nationwide.
  • Which would mean substantially fewer people killed by police in almost every city.
That list has some ridiculous recommendations. According to those 'experts' police should be banned from shooting at someone in a moving car....does that include a moving car that someone is using to plow into a crowd? Or into them? And they should disarm knife attacks without using their gun? Good luck with that. Really...are you going to volunteer to do that? I don't know anyone who will. These types of fantasy-land recommendations are what is going to eliminate policing. That is the point isn't it? Abolition. Be careful what you wish for, because local policing will probably crash and burn under this maniacal assault by activists. It will be replaced by some type of federalized force who will be less accountable, and who will have little patience for the anti-police activists and rioting mobs. And who will have little interest in 'de-escalation.'
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Old 05-01-2021, 06:40 PM
 
Location: Chicago
495 posts, read 192,685 times
Reputation: 716
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lekrii View Post
In the UK, police killings per 10m people are 0.5. Japan that metric is 0.2 police killings per 10 million people. France is 3.8. The US is 28.4 per 10 million people. That puts the US in the same level as countries like Mexico, Rwanda, and Sudan.

Yes, mistakes happen. For a country like the US, they should happen a lot less.
In Japan and France, 13% of the population is not black.

In the US it is.

Do you see the difference?
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Old 05-01-2021, 06:50 PM
 
5,985 posts, read 2,917,886 times
Reputation: 9026
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeeGee7 View Post
In Japan and France, 13% of the population is not black.

In the US it is.

Do you see the difference?
Sorry, I don't. Can you clarify the point you're making? What does that have to do with the rate of US police killings?

Last edited by Lekrii; 05-01-2021 at 07:00 PM..
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Old 05-01-2021, 07:12 PM
 
Location: *
13,240 posts, read 4,925,181 times
Reputation: 3461
Quote:
Originally Posted by kmom2 View Post
That list has some ridiculous recommendations. According to those 'experts' police should be banned from shooting at someone in a moving car....does that include a moving car that someone is using to plow into a crowd? Or into them? And they should disarm knife attacks without using their gun? Good luck with that. Really...are you going to volunteer to do that? I don't know anyone who will. These types of fantasy-land recommendations are what is going to eliminate policing. That is the point isn't it? Abolition. Be careful what you wish for, because local policing will probably crash and burn under this maniacal assault by activists. It will be replaced by some type of federalized force who will be less accountable, and who will have little patience for the anti-police activists and rioting mobs. And who will have little interest in 'de-escalation.'
Policing will not be eliminated.

Complete eradication of police killing civilians is not the expected outcome; the goal is reduction.
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Old 05-01-2021, 07:15 PM
 
27,142 posts, read 15,318,187 times
Reputation: 12071
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasLawyer2000 View Post
This is a good point. Police officers (per the OP) have a 2% error rate in regards to life and death situations (if just considering unarmed black people). That's very high. If a Ford engineer had a 2% error rate with parts they produced, they would be fired. Murder is much worse.
This disregards the individual facts and circumstances of all cases overall.....but you know that.
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Old 05-01-2021, 07:31 PM
 
Location: Chicago
495 posts, read 192,685 times
Reputation: 716
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lekrii View Post
Sorry, I don't. Can you clarify the point you're making? What does that have to do with the rate of US police killings?
It’s pretty straightforward. When a 13% black minority commits over half the murders in the US, its fair to assume that if blacks represented 13% of the population in France, instead of 3.5%, and 13% of the population in Japan, instead of much less than 1%, that police contact and police killings in France and Japan would be significantly higher.
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Old 05-01-2021, 07:35 PM
 
Location: NY
5,209 posts, read 1,796,721 times
Reputation: 3423
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest View Post
Policing will not be eliminated.

Complete eradication of police killing civilians is not the expected outcome; the goal is reduction.
Maybe that is your goal--but not with some of those recommendations in your last post. But the goal of these activists is abolition of policing, then prisons. I participated in Cuomo's mandated Reimagine Policing meetings in my city. Several activists showed up reading scripted material about how policing evolved from slave catching...and all sorts of nonsense. They are not negotiating/reforming in good faith. They have out of touch recommendations that make it impossible for police to do their job safely, thus resulting in police quitting, retiring, etc. What do you think the end goal of that is? Ultimately, more people will lose their lives as crime will spiral out of control in cities. And someday....I can envision some kind of federalized response if things get really bad.

There was an active shooter in my city that the police ended up tackling without shooting him. A bystander also piled onto the shooter. The mayor lauded the police for the response, but actually, I think they were just lucky. Lucky they didn't get shot. Lucky the bystander didn't get shot. This was last summer and I think they wanted to avoid becoming Kenosha so they put themselves and bystanders in danger.
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Old 05-01-2021, 07:37 PM
 
8,299 posts, read 3,812,442 times
Reputation: 5919
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesjuke View Post
This disregards the individual facts and circumstances of all cases overall.....but you know that.
Did you actually read this thread? Doesn't seem like it.
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Old 05-01-2021, 07:45 PM
 
5,985 posts, read 2,917,886 times
Reputation: 9026
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeeGee7 View Post
It’s pretty straightforward. When a 13% black minority commits over half the murders in the US, its fair to assume that if blacks represented 13% of the population in France, instead of 3.5%, and 13% of the population in Japan, instead of much less than 1%, that police contact and police killings in France and Japan would be significantly higher.
What on earth are you talking about? The original post talks about how many unarmed white people are killed by police. This isn't a racial issue. This is an issue of police in the US being poorly trained, and using excessive force.
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