Supreme Court will hear direct challenge to Roe v. Wade (supporter, alcohol)

[ebbe]

15 weeks is not the first trimester. The Roe case provides for government regulation in the second trimester.

[Stepnking]

I have snipped much of your statement for brevity, and because it contains subjects already discussed.

Originally Posted by Clintone

Someone would still be thinking of themselves as "me" in the sense that people would still be thinking of themselves as "me." I doesn't matter who. Your self-awareness would still continue...just without your unique genetic traits. Here, I'm trying to get the same point across I was trying to get across in your above example.

Look at things this way...((and I believe I've stated this example before, but I'm talking about some rather confusing things so this will inevitably be difficult for people to comprehend what I'm talking about, no matter how good of a job I do trying to explain it (and I think I am doing about as good of a job as I can in explaining it...or at least I've put a lot of effort into attempting to explain it)):

I will give you exceptional credit for doing that. I acknowledge you have put forth quite the effort. There are still areas we have no agreement, but discussing different views can be refreshing.

There is basically no difference between me dying and any other human still living on and me developing a severe case of amnesia that permanently wipes out almost all of my memories, but still living on. In both cases, my memories are lost, and sentience still lives on.....and there's no reason why we shouldn't call anyone's sentience my sentience, if all we're talking about is sentience without my unique genetic traits and relationships and memories.

If we are talking about sentience, supporters of abortion say a fetus does not have sentience. How does something that doesn't exist live on?

In other words, in some very valid contexts, you are provably my afterlife...just without my memories and relationships, if you're still here after I die.

Why that's relevant to this thread is that fetuses don't lose those memories or relationships that make us traditionally view our lives as discontinuing when we lose them. Unless they experience painful or unpleasant deaths, their ability to experience existence is the only thing they lose from death...but even that continues on in other people so it doesn't matter. Their sentience still exists, in that sense...just with a new set of genetic traits...so they lose nothing from death, unless death is unpleasant.

I don't believe when I die I will experience anyone else sentience that is still living. or that I will be anyone's "afterlife". I can only view that as unsupported speculation on which we will never agree.

I had originally posted the following, to which you responded with the statement below it
The fact that someone would still be thinking of themselves as "Me" though, means you'd still have everything you want out of life, even if you were aborted.

Which doesn't matter. The point is that nothing will be lost from abortions, except for potential feelings of pain, that don't still exist after the abortion happens.

Just try to think of anything at all, aside from potential pain that could be lost through an abortion that's relevant to the fetus. You won't be able to think of anything accurate.

You are looking at this from the standpoint of the fetus. Try looking at it from the standpoint of society. Life! That is the major portion that is lost to abortion. Potential is another loss. Suppose Einstein had been aborted, would that have been a loss to the world through abortion? You do realize he was once a fetus also. How about Newton, Bell, Pasteur, MLK, little Johnny down the street, or the special Olympics kid who is jumping with joy because they got to participate or anyone else of the millions who have made a positive contribution to society.

No one, no one knows the potential of a fetus. If we did, you could have aborted Adolph. I'm sure the parents of those mentioned had no idea the contributions to the world their 'cell masses' would make. We obviously don't know what advances haven't taken place because the person who could accomplish was lost to abortion. It's amazing the justifications put forth to end the life of a "potential" person when we have no idea what that potential may be.

The loss of the life of the fetus won't matter to the fetus. It doesn't understand, or care about, the concept of life. Life is a neutral state to it, rather than something it craves to continue. It loses no relationships. It has no dreams or goals it would be disappointed about not getting to achieve.

Again you are looking at this from the standpoint of the fetus. The fetus doesn't make the decision. The fetus knows nothing of the world at this point. The fetus is relying on the protection of the mother. That's how this pregnancy thing works for everyone. Life may be a neutral state to it, but it is the state it is in, until a decision is made for it......to end it. We will never know if the fetus would agree or not.

Instead of focusing on the fetus and what it feels, focus on the woman and what she feels. Do you think she would feel better counting the days from her last period hoping she was just late rather than pregnant, or would she feel more confident knowing she was protected from pregnancy by her proactive choice of birth control. I said earlier that abortion was being used as 'birth control'. Here is the thing, birth control is proactive, abortion is reactive. They are not the same.

[Stepnking]

Originally Posted by Marc Paolella

I was pleasantly shocked by Ireland’s decision to reverse its abortion ban. I have looked at all the pictures and propaganda and I still think 16-20 weeks would be fine. I’m still looking at pictures of entities that are non-experiential, non-conscious, non-sentient and non-viable. It is rational to allow the removal of this tissue. While technically “alive”, these are not “lives” in the larger sense. It’s still a potential, not an actual.

What's wrong with being a 'potential'?
One day you were a potential person, then you become Marc Paolella.
You are now a potential corpse, then you become dead.

In some instances, 'potential' is better.

[Marc Paolella]

Originally Posted by Stepnking

I have snipped much of your statement for brevity, and because it contains subjects already discussed.I will give you exceptional credit for doing that. I acknowledge you have put forth quite the effort. There are still areas we have no agreement, but discussing different views can be refreshing. If we are talking about sentience, supporters of abortion say a fetus does not have sentience. How does something that doesn't exist live on? I don't believe when I die I will experience anyone else sentience that is still living. or that I will be anyone's "afterlife". I can only view that as unsupported speculation on which we will never agree.You are looking at this from the standpoint of the fetus. Try looking at it from the standpoint of society. Life! That is the major portion that is lost to abortion. Potential is another loss. Suppose Einstein had been aborted, would that have been a loss to the world through abortion? You do realize he was once a fetus also. How about Newton, Bell, Pasteur, MLK, little Johnny down the street, or the special Olympics kid who is jumping with joy because they got to participate or anyone else of the millions who have made a positive contribution to society.

No one, no one knows the potential of a fetus. If we did, you could have aborted Adolph. I'm sure the parents of those mentioned had no idea the contributions to the world their 'cell masses' would make. We obviously don't know what advances haven't taken place because the person who could accomplish was lost to abortion. It's amazing the justifications put forth to end the life of a "potential" person when we have no idea what that potential may be. Again you are looking at this from the standpoint of the fetus. The fetus doesn't make the decision. The fetus knows nothing of the world at this point. The fetus is relying on the protection of the mother. That's how this pregnancy thing works for everyone. Life may be a neutral state to it, but it is the state it is in, until a decision is made for it......to end it. We will never know if the fetus would agree or not.

Instead of focusing on the fetus and what it feels, focus on the woman and what she feels. Do you think she would feel better counting the days from her last period hoping she was just late rather than pregnant, or would she feel more confident knowing she was protected from pregnancy by her proactive choice of birth control. I said earlier that abortion was being used as 'birth control'. Here is the thing, birth control is proactive, abortion is reactive. They are not the same.

You are already talking about the fetus as if it is a thing that will “miss out” on becoming something. There is no missing out. There is no fate. There is no destination. It is non-aware, non-cognitive, non-conscious, non-sentient. It is not an entity that will “miss” or “not miss” anything. You are anthropomorphizing cell tissue that is consciously inanimate. It doesn’t matter if Einstein was aborted. Life and discoveries would gave gone on. Abortion could also be saving us from the next Ocasio-Cortez. The only important decision here is that of the woman carrying the fetal tissue. If she wants it for a future she is building, it has value today. If she wants a future without it, then it is without value and removing it is the best course of action.

[Marc Paolella]

Originally Posted by Stepnking

What's wrong with being a 'potential'?
One day you were a potential person, then you become Marc Paolella.
You are now a potential corpse, then you become dead.

In some instances, 'potential' is better.

There is nothing wrong with being a potential, if the potential in question is wanted by the woman charged with fulfilling that potential. If she is not willing and able and interested in doing that, than removal of the unwanted potential is correct and rational.

It is amazing that an Ireland would reverse course and legalize ANY form of abortion. You have to be proud of them. I mean, short of the Vatican allowing abortion, the only other countries that would be more surprising would be Iran or some of the other neanderthal states in the Middle East and Africa.

[Ellis Bell]

Originally Posted by Ellis Bell

So you have nothing.

Originally Posted by Marc Paolella

I choose nothing when it comes to responding to your dopey low effort posts.

You have no collaborations for your views, and there is all of science to collaborate the facts.

[Ellis Bell]

Originally Posted by Ellis Bell

I've got nothing for all of this inhuman tribble --- I can't even describe it any more than to just call it tribble. Apparently some people have a lot of time on their hands to waist and waist it, you have --- If you could only hear yourself. I take that back --- it's actually a good thing you can't.

Originally Posted by Clintone

I have typed no "tribble." I have, rather, made a series of extremely patient, intelligent comments. I do this because I have a moral obligation to assist others. This is not a waste of time. I see things few other people appear to see. I intend to show these things to people. It's the best way I can think of to help people...better than doing charities or joining the military or anything else, at least that's how I see my comments on this thread. I typically make comments for my own entertainment...but not on this thread. I post on this thread for humanitarian reasons.

With the baby bust rather than boom and global fertility rate at 2.5, if fertility rate continues to decline, globally, all of humanity has the potential to one-day be erased. I for one can not say, that's a bad thing.

[Marc Paolella]

Originally Posted by Ellis Bell

You have no collaborations for your views, and there is all of science to collaborate the facts.

Science tells us what we need to know to make a good decision. Science shows us that a 12 week old fetus is non-conscious, non-cognizant, non-viable, non-sentient, non-aware, and non self-aware. Based on scientific observation, we can remove the early cell mass without any issues. And that is what the entire civilized world is doing. Most recently Ireland!

[Ellis Bell]

Originally Posted by Ellis Bell

You have no collaborations for your views, and there is all of science to collaborate the facts.

Originally Posted by Marc Paolella

Science tells us what we need to know to make a good decision. Science shows us that a 12 week old fetus is non-conscious, non-cognizant, non-viable, non-sentient, non-aware, and non self-aware. Based on scientific observation, we can remove the early cell mass without any issues. And that is what the entire civilized world is doing. Most recently Ireland!

Originally Posted by Marc Paolella

Science tells us what we need to know to make a good decision.

That it can:

The Biology of Prenatal Development DVD

"Our award-winning science documentary, The Biology of Prenatal Development, explains the science and communicates the wonder of human development from fertilization through birth. Using six medical imaging technologies, the program features extraordinarily rare direct videography of the living human embryo and early fetus inside the womb from 4½ to 12 weeks following fertilization."

The Biology of Prenatal Development (8 - 12 weeks)

"9 Weeks: Swallows, Sighs, and Stretches
thumb sucking begins and the fetus can swallow amniotic fluid.
The fetus can also grasp an object, move the head forward and back, open and close the jaw, move the tongue, sigh, and stretch.

Nerve receptors in the face, the palms of the hands, and the soles of the feet can sense light touch.

"In response to a light touch on the sole of the foot," the fetus will bend the hip and knee and may curl the toes.

The eyelids are now completely closed.

In the larynx, the appearance of vocal ligaments signals the onset of vocal cord development.

In female fetuses, the uterus is identifiable and immature reproductive cells, called oogonia, are replicating within the ovary.

External genitalia begin to distinguish themselves as either male or female."

[Stepnking]

Originally Posted by Marc Paolella

You are already talking about the fetus as if it is a thing that will “miss out” on becoming something.

Yes, exactly. A fetus won't "miss out" on becoming something if nature is allowed to take its course. A fetus is not static. A fetus in the latter part of the second trimester is the same fetus as in the first trimester. This "hurry up before it's too late" mantra of the pro-death side is maddening.

There is no missing out. There is no fate. There is no destination. It is non-aware, non-cognitive, non-conscious, non-sentient. It is not an entity that will “miss” or “not miss” anything. You are anthropomorphizing cell tissue that is consciously inanimate.

Nonsense! It is not inanimate, consciously or any other way. Again, a fetus is not static. That you don't perceive what is taking place within this human creation is moot. You can anthropomorphize the Grinch, but not another human. (Deny it's human till you turn blue, science will refute your opinion).

It doesn’t matter if Einstein was aborted. Life and discoveries would gave gone on. Abortion could also be saving us from the next Ocasio-Cortez. The only important decision here is that of the woman carrying the fetal tissue. If she wants it for a future she is building, it has value today. If she wants a future without it, then it is without value and removing it is the best course of action.

The value of a fetus is not determined by any outside force. One fetus has no more or less value than another, the only differentials are decisions regarding it.
The power over life and death huh? Awesome power to have. Not one I would want......Careful how you use it.