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...Putin initiated the call....he called Erdogan who's put himself in the middle as the negotiator
make of it what you will.....Putin's rear is in a crack right now
Ukraine conflict: Putin lays out his demands in Turkish phone call
"On Thursday afternoon, President Vladimir Putin rang the Turkish President, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, and told him what Russia's precise demands were for a peace deal with Ukraine."
"The first four demands are, according to Mr Kalin, not too difficult for Ukraine to meet."
"Chief among them is an acceptance by Ukraine that it should be neutral and should not apply to join Nato. Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelensky has already conceded this."
"There are other demands in this category which mostly seem to be face-saving elements for the Russian side."
"Ukraine would have to undergo a disarmament process to ensure it wasn't a threat to Russia. There would have to be protection for the Russian language in Ukraine. And there is something called de-Nazification."
"The second category is where the difficulty will lie, and in his phone call, Mr Putin said that it would need face-to-face negotiations between him and President Zelensky before agreement could be reached on these points."
"Still, President Putin's demands are not as harsh as some people feared and they scarcely seem to be worth all the violence, bloodshed and destruction which Russia has visited on Ukraine."
"Given his heavy-handed control over the Russian media, it shouldn't be too hard for him and his acolytes to present all this as a major victory"
Denazification could mean anything. It could mean systemic purges, lengthy prison sentences, the return of the gulags, etc. Russia has a long history of harsh retaliatory/punitive measures against countries who had the nerve to defend themselves from Russian aggression. How dare they resist!
Putin and his nation will end up paying a steep price for what little they walk away with, but he may feel that he really accomplished something for all this bloodshed and violence.
Denazification could mean anything. It could mean systemic purges, lengthy prison sentences, the return of the gulags, etc. Russia has a long history of harsh retaliatory/punitive measures against countries who had the nerve to defend themselves from Russian aggression. How dare they resist!
Anything short of that to people who tortured and murdered opposition and committed war crimes (or ordered that to others) would be not acceptable.
Denazification could mean anything. It could mean systemic purges, lengthy prison sentences, the return of the gulags, etc. Russia has a long history of harsh retaliatory/punitive measures against countries who had the nerve to defend themselves from Russian aggression. How dare they resist!
Putin and his nation will end up paying a steep price for what little they walk away with, but he may feel that he really accomplished something for all this bloodshed and violence.
I’m pretty sure Russia is doing that part themselves fighting 3,000 Azov troops in Mariupol. There is reports they have been preventing civilians from leaving, this city could get leveled to the ground.
As for the rest, Zelensky already said no NATO, so no reason this can’t end now. A neutrality Ukraine can be successful and act as a buffer between east and west.
I don't trust it, especially since Turkey's corrupted disgrace of a leader is mediating it. Also, if I was Zelenskyy, I'd be meeting Putin with some of the most skilled military officials on my side, and would only agree to meet after the entire building was surveyed, inside and out. Putin literally sent killers from Russia and Chechnya to kill Zelenskyy and his family. Hell, how Zelenskyy could even contain his composure being in the same room as Putin is beyond me.
I don't think Putin will give up his occupation of SE Ukraine all the way to Kherson. He had hoped to get Odessa, of course, along with all the natural gas under the Black Sea. Short of an all out amphibious landing that won't be possible, and THAT may not even do it, since the Ukrainians have now mined the waters and the beach.
Putin needs to buy time while the land dries out long enough to be used by military vehicles. Right now, they have to use roads; fields are too muddy.
So I don't think Putin is negotiating at all. I think he's stalling.
I wouldn't talk to him.
...Putin initiated the call....he called Erdogan who's put himself in the middle as the negotiator
make of it what you will.....Putin's rear is in a crack right now
Ukraine conflict: Putin lays out his demands in Turkish phone call
"On Thursday afternoon, President Vladimir Putin rang the Turkish President, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, and told him what Russia's precise demands were for a peace deal with Ukraine."
"The first four demands are, according to Mr Kalin, not too difficult for Ukraine to meet."
"Chief among them is an acceptance by Ukraine that it should be neutral and should not apply to join Nato. Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelensky has already conceded this."
"There are other demands in this category which mostly seem to be face-saving elements for the Russian side."
"Ukraine would have to undergo a disarmament process to ensure it wasn't a threat to Russia. There would have to be protection for the Russian language in Ukraine. And there is something called de-Nazification."
"The second category is where the difficulty will lie, and in his phone call, Mr Putin said that it would need face-to-face negotiations between him and President Zelensky before agreement could be reached on these points."
"Still, President Putin's demands are not as harsh as some people feared and they scarcely seem to be worth all the violence, bloodshed and destruction which Russia has visited on Ukraine."
"Given his heavy-handed control over the Russian media, it shouldn't be too hard for him and his acolytes to present all this as a major victory"
There's already a 15 point draft deal. That's what I would like to see, not a 3rd hand report about a phone call.
Anyway, here's a more detailed 3rd hand report, but also lacking the text of the actual draft. https://www.ft.com/content/7b341e46-...7-802b7fa77ef1
"The biggest sticking point remains Russia’s demand that Ukraine recognise its 2014 annexation of Crimea and the independence of two separatist statelets in the eastern Donbas border region."
That's a big problem. To my ears, it says they aren't anywhere near to having a peace deal.
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