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Then what does this country need to do? Hold a constitutional convention to reset the country to reflect the year is 2021, rather than 1790 when the Constitution got ratified?
He claims that America is an ideal. But his definition of America seems to include the colonial era. And while he ascribes this ideal to America, it was Britain who created all of it. Furthermore, the Spanish Empire also had massive amounts of immigration. There are Germans all over South America, Italians, Greeks, even Japanese and Chinese. This idea that America's immigration is somehow unique is total nonsense. Nor does it exist for some benevolent purpose.
He goes on to give the five pillars on which America was founded. But pretty much none of these things were remotely true until at least the Civil War, if not the 1960's, and many would say they still aren't true. So how can a country be founded on ideals it has never had?
Nothing annoys me more than people using the term "American values". There is no such thing. Your values are not my values. Thomas Jefferson and George Washington would hate today's America. If Thomas Jefferson were alive today he would be trying to overthrow this government.
I'm not going to listen to him or anyone else repeat total nonsense. If you want to change America, then change America, but don't tell me this is what the founders wanted. It's not true. This is what you want, and you think you can appeal to the founding fathers as a justification, or to a single line in the Declaration of Independence.
If any of you have read the Declaration of Independence(especially Jefferson's original draft), you would understand that the Declaration of Independence is practically a license to overthrow any government you don't like. Many of the accusations Jefferson made against King George are just as true of America in 2021.
I want you to see America for what it really is. I want you to understand why America exists. I want you to know why Lincoln fought a war to prevent secession. I want you to understand why we had to genocide the natives. I want you to understand the reason immigration exists. I want you to understand the real reason we abolished slavery, and emancipated women, and had racial integration, etc.
I want you to see the world for what it really is, instead of the fantasy created by the government and its media lackeys.
Once you understand how we got here, you'll know where we're going.
"How we live is so different from how we ought to live that he who studies what ought to be done rather than what is done will learn the way to his downfall rather than to his preservation." - Niccolo Machiavelli
Edit: When you talk about "the country", you have to understand that I see America much like a Tibetan sees China. Or an aborigine sees Australia. Or a Kurd sees Iraq or Turkey. I don't think we are a country. We're a government, and an economy. And the moment the boot comes off our necks, America will cease to exist. I say remove the boot.
I agree with antifa, defund the police.
Last edited by Redshadowz; 05-28-2021 at 04:48 AM..
Why would I be afraid of dying? What would I be afraid of? What are you afraid of?
Who were the founding fathers and what did they want? Did they want democracy? Did they care about your rights? These men were slave-owners who were genociding the natives, that did everything they could to prevent democracy. Including restricting it to only rich white men, even after erecting institutional barriers reducing it to impotence.
As Alexander Hamilton said... "All communities divide themselves into the few and the many. The first are the rich and well born, the other the mass of the people.... The people are turbulent and changing; they seldom judge or determine right. Give therefore to the first class a distinct, permanent share in the government. They will check the unsteadiness of the second, and as they cannot receive any advantage by change, they therefore will ever maintain good government."
You have to let go of your childish fantasy that George Washington was fighting for you. No, he was fighting for himself. The founding fathers were all rich men, half owned slaves. The notion that they were fighting for freedom is utterly absurd.
"People do not go to war for abstract theories of government. They fight for property and privilege." - W.E.B. Dubois
So what did Alexander Hamilton want? Was he not free under the British? I'll tell you what he wanted, he wanted to overthrow the British aristocracy because he wasn't an aristocrat, and then establish himself, and other rich and influential men like himself, as the new rulers.
"Who are the aristocrats? Philosophy may answer "The Wise and Good." But the World, Mankind, have by their practice always answered, "the rich, the beautiful, and the well-born." And philosophers themselves in marrying their children prefer the rich, the handsome, and the well-descended to the wise and good. What chance have talents and virtues in a competition with wealth, birth, and beauty? The five pillars of aristocracy are beauty, wealth, birth, genius, and virtues. Any one of the three first can at any time over bear any one or both of the two last.
You may laugh at the introduction of beauty among the pillars of aristocracy. But Madame Barry says "true royalty is beauty", and there is not a more certain truth. Beauty, grace, figure, attitude, movement, have in innumerable instances prevailed over wealth, birth, talents, virtues and every thing else. In men of the highest rank, greatest power, and sometimes, the most exalted genius, greatest fame, and highest merit."
Hamilton believed that the rich and well-born should use the institutions they control, to manipulate the people through "fear and greed". From the article.... "Hamilton accepted Hume’s conclusion that men are motivated by their passions, and the strongest passion is greed. A government that could use men’s greed to motivate them to support the government would become rich and powerful... Shays’s Rebellion in 1786 and 1787 strengthened his fear of democracy and his belief in the necessity of an effective national government to protect the property of wealthy men who would, in turn, support that government."
People come here for money. That is the only reason they are here. If there was more money somewhere else, they would go there. If we were poor no one would come here, except maybe to exploit us, as we do to poor countries.
Everything you believe is a lie. So why do you believe it? Or better yet, who told you it?
This topic of this thread is Biden has erased our border meaning immigration. It still is right?
PS: You've made it from my A list to my ignore list --- so there's that too.
Last edited by Ellis Bell; 05-28-2021 at 10:25 AM..
There is a labor shortage in the country. Why not let them in legally, so they won't have to be smuggled in?
Could be because there is no such thing as a legal immigrant, for anyone crossing the boarder, even to come here for work and go home. There sure use to be circular migration.
This topic of this thread is Biden has erased our border meaning immigration. It still is right?
PS: You've made it from my A list to my ignore list --- so there's that too.
Immigration will exist in whatever proportion it is good for economic growth. If immigration didn't cause crime, and immigrants voted the "right way", we would have open-borders.
This isn't about an ideal, this isn't about democracy and equality, or the other litany of excuses you make which have no foundation in reality. It is about money. That is why it is done.
But just because there is economic growth doesn't mean everyone wins. So why then do the people who lose the most from immigration still support it? Why do people act in almost suicidal ways?
I don't expect to change your mind. You are a true American. You love only money and what it can buy. And I presume you are doing well in life to that end.
"I could not attribute a reasonable motive to any single act in my whole life. I was only astonished that I could not have realized this at the very beginning. All this had so long been known to me! Illness and death would come, if not to-day, then to-morrow, to those whom I loved, to myself, and nothing remains but stench and worms. All my acts, whatever I did, would sooner or later be forgotten, and I myself be nowhere. Why, then, busy one's self with anything? How could men fail to see this, and live?...It is possible to live only as long as life intoxicates us; as soon as we are sober again we see that it is all a delusion, and a stupid delusion! In this, indeed, there is nothing either ludicrous or amusing; it is only cruel and stupid!" - Leo Tolstoy
What is it that makes life worth living?
Last edited by Redshadowz; 05-28-2021 at 01:01 PM..
There is a labor shortage in the country. Why not let them in legally, so they won't have to be smuggled in?
No there is not a labor shortage in this country. The labor force participation rate is the lowest it's been since 1975. The current rate for high school graduates is 55.4%, and for those with less than a high school education (the ones immigrants compete with most for jobs) is only 44.3%. It's no secret that high immigration levels hurt black American men more than any other group, yet you liberals love immigration, no matter if it's legal or not. Meanwhile, your fellow American citizens are being denied jobs, or even fired from their jobs and replaced by immigrants, and your response? "More immigration."
Quote:
In 2008, Vernon Briggs, Emeritus Professor of Labor Economics at Cornell University, testified before the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights. He stated matter-of-factly that there was “little doubt” that black Americans are the “major loser” in the immigration equation. Briggs explained:
Because most illegal immigrants overwhelmingly seek work in the low skilled labor market and because the black American labor force is so disproportionately concentrated in this same low wage sector, there is little doubt that there is significant overlap in competition for jobs in this sector of the labor market. Given the inordinately high unemployment rates for low skilled black workers…it is obvious that the major loser in this competition are low skilled black workers.
Quote:
A 1995 study conducted by Augustine Kposowa found that when compared to white Americans, “non-whites appear to lose jobs to immigrants and their earnings are more depressed by immigrants.” These non-whites mostly include black and Hispanic American citizens.
A 1998 study of the New York area by David Howell and Elizabeth Mueller of the New School for Social Research found that a 10 percent increase in the immigrant share of any given occupation reduced wages of the black men working in that occupation by five percentage points. Furthermore, the relationship held across a wide range of jobs. Basically, more immigration meant lower wages for black Americans.
No there is not a labor shortage in this country. The labor force participation rate is the lowest it's been since 1975. The current rate for high school graduates is 55.4%, and for those with less than a high school education (the ones immigrants compete with most for jobs) is only 44.3%. It's no secret that high immigration levels hurt black American men more than any other group, yet you liberals love immigration, no matter if it's legal or not. Meanwhile, your fellow American citizens are being denied jobs, or even fired from their jobs and replaced by immigrants, and your response? "More immigration."
Yeah because a 4 year old found in a field in Texas is just waiting to get out of the detention camp to phone Mom and give her the a-okay to travel for a month and join her in Tennessee.
In the case of the 2 girls from Ecuador who were dropped over the wall, the bag that the smugglers dropped contained a cell phone, the girls’ passports, and the phone number of their relative. The parents got in first, then paid a smuggler to bring the girls over.
There is a labor shortage in the country. Why not let them in legally, so they won't have to be smuggled in?
Quote:
Originally Posted by dozerbear
No there is not a labor shortage in this country. The labor force participation rate is the lowest it's been since 1975. The current rate for high school graduates is 55.4%, and for those with less than a high school education (the ones immigrants compete with most for jobs) is only 44.3%. It's no secret that high immigration levels hurt black American men more than any other group, yet you liberals love immigration, no matter if it's legal or not. Meanwhile, your fellow American citizens are being denied jobs, or even fired from their jobs and replaced by immigrants, and your response? "More immigration."
Why would you sabotage (overwhelmingly) black Americans in such a way?
Quote:
Originally Posted by dozerbear
No there is not a labor shortage in this country. The labor force participation rate is the lowest it's been since 1975.
If the labor participation rate is low, meaning people are here, just not in the workforce, doesn't that in itself, constitute a labor shortage? More jobs in the country, than the people to work them, because people choose not to?
I tried to verify your statement, "labor force participation rate is the lowest it's been since 1975." And I could not. I did find however a paper written by, Peterson Institute for International Economics, The Problem of US Labor Force Participation, and it states:
"As 2018 drew to a close, the jobless rate in the United States had declined to a level not seen since the 1960s. But the hopeful picture presented by a near record low unemployment rate of 3.7 percent is also misleading. While the United States has experienced more robust growth than many advanced economies in Europe and Asia, its labor force participation during the recovery from the financial crisis of 2007–08 was comparatively poor. This participation rate masked a weakness reflecting the fact that many Americans who could have been employed, contributing to the US economy, chose to drop out of the labor force for reasons ranging from illness and disability (aggravated by the opioid crisis) to lack of mobility or simply being discouraged about finding work."
I have yet to find anyone of any research, academic, or study in the field of economics state that the reason for the u.s. citizen to not participate in the workforce is due to immigration, illegal or otherwise.
Okay so what happens in real time to an economy when the migrant, legal or otherwise, is removed?
"Economic activity produced by immigrants—what economists call the “immigration surplus”—shrank because there were fewer immigrants around to buy clothing and groceries, to work and to start businesses. "
Overall the GDP takes a hit --- that can't be good, can it?
btw: if there are jobs without people to work, utilizing a person's ethnicity to make a point doesn't work --- the jobs are there for everyone, regardless ...
"Economists broadly agree: the political backlash against immigration in many countries is not economically rational. The evidence strongly supports immigration as, overall, a clear benefit to destination countries."
Last edited by Ellis Bell; 05-29-2021 at 10:11 AM..
Reason: added ps
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