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In science, just testing something because it seems to "work" isn't enough. There has to be a rational scientific basis for attempting to prove something other than coincidence. So many of the infected don't show symptoms and recover that people are using this to falsely paint home remedies as cures.
Quote:
The drug’s manufacturer, pharma giant MSD, also warned that its analysis of ivermectin identified “no scientific basis for a potential therapeutic effect against Covid-19 from pre-clinical studies”, “no meaningful evidence for clinical activity or clinical efficacy in patients with Covid-19 disease” and “a concerning lack of safety data” in most studies.
In science, just testing something because it seems to "work" isn't enough. There has to be a rational scientific basis for attempting to prove something other than coincidence. So many of the infected don't show symptoms and recover that people are using this to falsely paint home remedies as cures.
There was rational scientific basis to try these meds prior to the pandemic. I read a lot of studies early on. It was not something pulled out of thin air. A number of doctors who’s only interest is keeping people out of the hospital and from dying have found this to work. There is ample evidence.
There was rational scientific basis to try these meds prior to the pandemic. I read a lot of studies early on. It was not something pulled out of thin air. A number of doctors who’s only interest is keeping people out of the hospital and from dying have found this to work. There is ample evidence.
Those studies were tainted by scandal. Other studies were too small. Studies may be made to say whatever you want. You can produce them early on in the pandemic when very few are infected and show that almost no one gets infected. You can run the study during a lockdown and do the same. The drug manufacturer is saying there is no basis for any real impact on Covid based on the drug's properties.
Now the ivermectin touts are claiming India as a success despite the fact they've been in lockdown for 2 months and administered 200 million doses of vaccine to succeed.
This is the same as all the other conspiracy theorists. They get knocked down for flawed logic and lack of evidence, but they still flood the web over and over with the same nonsense. It is similar to other forms of propaganda.
Those studies were tainted by scandal. Other studies were too small. Studies may be made to say whatever you want. You can produce them early on in the pandemic when very few are infected and show that almost no one gets infected. You can run the study during a lockdown and do the same. The drug manufacturer is saying there is no basis for any real impact on Covid based on the drug's properties.
Now the ivermectin touts are claiming India as a success despite the fact they've been in lockdown for 2 months and administered 200 million doses of vaccine to succeed.
This is the same as all the other conspiracy theorists. They get knocked down for flawed logic and lack of evidence, but they still flood the web over and over with the same nonsense. It is similar to other forms of propaganda.
Here are the people who reviewed the trials, dont think they are qualified?
Those studies were tainted by scandal. Other studies were too small. Studies may be made to say whatever you want. You can produce them early on in the pandemic when very few are infected and show that almost no one gets infected. You can run the study during a lockdown and do the same. The drug manufacturer is saying there is no basis for any real impact on Covid based on the drug's properties.
Now the ivermectin touts are claiming India as a success despite the fact they've been in lockdown for 2 months and administered 200 million doses of vaccine to succeed.
This is the same as all the other conspiracy theorists. They get knocked down for flawed logic and lack of evidence, but they still flood the web over and over with the same nonsense. It is similar to other forms of propaganda.
The studies I’m talking about were pre covid for Sars. Zinc plus Hydroxychloroquine used together were shown to work.
The studies post covid were generally poorly designed. A couple of them showing it to be dangerous or not to work we’re faked and later retracted. That is the real scandal.
There is tons of data now.
Last edited by MissTerri; 06-09-2021 at 06:17 PM..
Good Intentions: How Big Business and the Medical Establishment Are Corrupting the Fight Against AIDS
"Callen told Fauci that there was plenty of evidence from community doctors that it was possible to prevent the onset of Pneumocystis carinii pneumonia (PCP) by prophylaxing with a new drug, aerosol pentamidine, or with an older drug, sold as Bactrim or Septra. Fauci nearly shouted, "I can't do that. I can't issue these kinds of guidelines and I can't convene a consensus conference." "Why not?" shot back Callen. "There's no data," Fauci practically screamed. Callen was dumbstruck. No data? What the hell was Fauci talking about? There was data all over New York. Joe Sonnabend, Nathaniel Pier, and Barbara Starrett were all using Bactrim and aerosol pentamidine with their patients. No one had died from PCP in New York in months. There was no data? Callen was furious. There was plenty of data, if only Fauci and the rest of NIH were willing to look at real people in real communities instead of the endless bottoms of their test tubes. "Please, I beg you, " Callen said. "Just tell doctors to simply consider it." Fauci dismissed the idea with a quick shake of his head. "I can't do that," he said. Callen was simply horrified at what was happening. He couldn't believe it. Fauci then gave Kramer, Kolodner, Gingell, Westmoreland, and Callen a lecture. "In the history of science, people have thought they've observed things and then it later turned out to be not so," he said. By implication, he, Dr. Anthony Fauci, was not about to let that happen to him. He would not take that risk. He would not be humiliated. Not even, thought Callen, if Fauci's decision cost the lives of tens of thousands of people with AIDS."
Good Intentions: How Big Business and the Medical Establishment Are Corrupting the Fight Against AIDS
"Callen told Fauci that there was plenty of evidence from community doctors that it was possible to prevent the onset of Pneumocystis carinii pneumonia (PCP) by prophylaxing with a new drug, aerosol pentamidine, or with an older drug, sold as Bactrim or Septra. Fauci nearly shouted, "I can't do that. I can't issue these kinds of guidelines and I can't convene a consensus conference." "Why not?" shot back Callen. "There's no data," Fauci practically screamed. Callen was dumbstruck. No data? What the hell was Fauci talking about? There was data all over New York. Joe Sonnabend, Nathaniel Pier, and Barbara Starrett were all using Bactrim and aerosol pentamidine with their patients. No one had died from PCP in New York in months. There was no data? Callen was furious. There was plenty of data, if only Fauci and the rest of NIH were willing to look at real people in real communities instead of the endless bottoms of their test tubes. "Please, I beg you, " Callen said. "Just tell doctors to simply consider it." Fauci dismissed the idea with a quick shake of his head. "I can't do that," he said. Callen was simply horrified at what was happening. He couldn't believe it. Fauci then gave Kramer, Kolodner, Gingell, Westmoreland, and Callen a lecture. "In the history of science, people have thought they've observed things and then it later turned out to be not so," he said. By implication, he, Dr. Anthony Fauci, was not about to let that happen to him. He would not take that risk. He would not be humiliated. Not even, thought Callen, if Fauci's decision cost the lives of tens of thousands of people with AIDS."
They couldn't use it because the FDA wouldn't allow people who were already on experimental drugs into the trials. They need a double-blind study with a control group and a group using pentamidine. Fauci was approached by activists and explained the situation. The drug was approved by the FDA a little more than a year later. The deaths that your quote tried to attribute to Fauci are wrong and exaggerated. They made it seem like it was never approved and never used.
You have to be careful with hit pieces on Fauci lately as there are distortions and lies. Anytime you see a lot of hit pieces on one person or entity, you have to look more closely at there is an obvious propaganda campaign being waged. The other criticisms took his quotes out of context as dates are quite important as to what the known facts were at that point in time. For instance, they claim that he said that masks weren't needed. But the quote was in February 2020 before the studies in April showed aerosol transmission of the virus.
There are three main characters, Trump, Pompeo, and Redfield, who royally screwed up the pandemic response and are looking for scapegoats. Read the Michael Lewis piece. They didn't order protective equipment or close down the borders, and they didn't test or quarantine asymptomatic carriers of the virus. Trump refused to order lockdowns in critical states. A team of medical researchers met with five states to inform them that the virus spreading was out of control.
Back to ivermectin, their reports touting the drug have been pulled from scientific journals since the studies they cited didn't meet the requirements.
It is annoying with the pro-HCQ and pro-Ivermectin. They just ignore the substantive responses to their claims. They just come and repeat the same false claims over and over again. You have to wonder what's it in for them.
Moderate-certainty evidence finds that large reductions in COVID-19 deaths are possible using ivermectin. Using ivermectin early in the clinical course may reduce numbers progressing to severe disease. The apparent safety and low cost suggest that ivermectin is likely to have a significant impact on the SARS-CoV-2 pandemic globally.
Ivory Hecker, an astute and brave local Fox reporter, interviewed Dr. Joseph Varon, despite Fox threatening her job if the unedited interview went live. It's worth listening to in its entirety, but here's some of what it says.
It's certainly not the first time Dr. Varon's been interviewed. He's talked with the media 1,640 times, including Hecker's interview. The first 1,639 interviews were edited to exclude specific information about his successes in treating hospitalized COVID patients.
Ivermectin and HCQ are two different beasts. The suppression of Ivermectin seems to be related to capital, the HCQ just wasnt a good option unless in very specific use cases. What prevented the last administration from conducting studies on HCQ and releases the findings, no one did , it was actually done and the studies were not conclusive (this is benign interpretation). To be clear nothing has prevented these whistleblower doctors from prescribing Ivermectin off label.
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