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The guy in the video was trying a bit too hard considering the Romans wrote down what they borrowed from Pagan religions directly.
Did Christians borrow dates and beliefs from Pagans. Yes.
The very date of Jesus birth, December 25th, was the date of a Pegan holiday and Constantine the Roman Emperor just put the celebration of Jesus birth on that date because people are already celebrating on that day anyway.
Easter was placed on the same day as a Pagan holiday. Even the name Easter comes from Eostre, the Germanic goddess of Spring, it has nothing to do with Christianity, it was just borrowed.
All this is not a big deal to me but for some even mentioning these things is a direct insult which I do not understand. Romans literally wrote down why they placed certain things on certain days when converting Rome to Christianity by Constantine.
These things have nothing to do with my argument! I never claimed Christmas as Christian. It's not in the Bible. Easter is not in the Bible, either (except the KJV translation of Acts 12:4, but in the Greek it is Passover). As a Bible-believing Christian, I repudiate Catholicism, and I repudiate its traditions as having anything to do with the faith. But what I have actually claimed is backed up by the historical evidence: the person of Jesus, His crucifixion, His disciples' experiences of the resurrection, and that He did things which were seen as miracles. All that is historical, and even the secular historical consensus supports the view that these things were NOT taken from pagan myths.
... from what we can establish by even the secular historical consensus, the reality of the resurrection is the best explanation.
Come on, now. It's completely likely that a young charismatic rabbi got in all sorts of trouble with both religious and secular authorities and established himself as he head of a splinter-group within Judaism. Doomsday sects and prophets weren't exactly rare in the early years of the Common Era. It's also quite likely that he grew to be enough of an issue that the Romans got rid of him in the most public manner possible. Their style as occupiers was always one of "We don't care whom you worship or how you run things, as long as you pay tribute and don't rock the boat."
But think for a sec, here.
Are we looking at case of "his followers thought he was risen", or are we looking at "his followers said he was risen"? Pre-crucifixion, the Carpenter's Son drew the crowds, right? Thousands and thousands of people, loaves and fishes, healing the sick and raising the dead in full view. After? The two Marys, two followers on the road, and most of the disciples. Did I miss any? And doesn't that strike you as a marked difference?
The most essential event in Christianity, the bedrock on which the entire edifice rests, and we have less than 15 eyewitnesses claimed to even exist, most of whom never wrote down anything. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. And it's not there.
If Jesus did in fact exist - and I'm perfectly willing to acknowledge the man might have - well, he said some damn smart and rather wise things, the Sermon on the Mount being I think the cornerstone, although his refusal to stone the sinner and his comments on ostentatious displays of piety are useful lessons as well.
But I lean towards the idea that someone hid the body and left the tomb open. And changed world history by doing so.
He applies the same methodology that the (secular) study of history itself would. We have histories of people and events that are 2000 years old, and that length of time does not constitute a basis for reasonable doubt about these things. Shall we also dismiss all historical facts about, say, Alexander the Great? In the video I posted, he's showing that, just from what we can establish by even the secular historical consensus, the reality of the resurrection is the best explanation.
If Alexander the Great was alledged to have super powers I would certainly dispute that if the only evidence is eyewitness accounts of that time.
The people in your video are simply assuming all that in the bible as true and using that as the starting point to their methedology. For that their logic is flawed from the start
If Alexander the Great was alledged to have super powers I would certainly dispute that if the only evidence is eyewitness accounts of that time.
The people in your video are simply assuming all that in the bible as true and using that as the starting point to their methedology. For that their logic is flawed from the start
There is a lot of literary evidence to back up the writings of the New Testament. First and foremost is how close they have come by date of copies of original writings, like within 70 years. No one doubts the writings of ancient Greek philosophers, yet the closest copy by date is like 1000 years. With the Bible it is within 70 years and we have hundreds of copies to compare with each other...far far more than any other text.
In the end, it comes down to faith. The atheist in this story was called by God and found Him. He now has a relationship with Jesus. Only those who have that relationship understand. Everyone comes to Jesus in their own way. Look up Lee Strobel's book "The Case for Christ" if you want another interesting story of finding Jesus (or Jesus finding him). An atheist reporter who digs for evidence expecting to be able to refute and he finds a ton of supporting evidence instead.
You can't make this stuff up, folks. At least his former colleagues were gracious about it.
"We wish Seth all the best in his new found relationship with Jesus Christ,” said AIK founder and president Harrison Mumia in an accompanying press release. “We thank him for having served the society with dedication over the last one and a half years.”
The press release also advertises the resulting vacancy in the organization, inviting prospective candidates to apply for the job.
No one doubts the writings of ancient Greek philosophers...
What? That happens all the time. The authenticity of tons of ancient texts of uncertain origin is being constantly discussed among classical scholars. Careers are made and lost on this.
We're quite sure that Plato and Socrates existed. But we're less certain of what they actually said themselves, and what their followers may have claimed they said. Sound familiar? And at least, in the case of the Greek philosophers, we know that they themselves wrote down their thoughts. We may not have the complete texts and we may be uncertain of the authenticity of specific texts, but we know that they wrote. Unlike, one might add, Jesus.
Only where as man has made ill attempts at defining something that didn't ask to be, or even need a definition. Man can not grapple with the idea that God Is --- without adding something to it, they even had to give the entity a name --- God. Man has to label things; so there's the label. 4000 years of traditional communication one with another, He had to have a name and a pronoun.
One-day people will realize that religion and politics are tools made by man to manipulate and control each other and that God had nothing to do with it --- man did.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur
I agree with the last sentence except that without also inventing god there would be no religion. Politics is an entirely different matter and a necessary part of civilized society.
That's what they thought about God too; many still do.
Last edited by Ellis Bell; 06-02-2021 at 01:16 PM..
Reason: spellcheck
I don't define God, nor would I ever try. God didn't make religion, man did.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aussiehoff
And onward goes the religion merry-go-round.....
So what is religion to you?
It isn't anything to me. imo, it creates boundaries and I prefer philosophy, where the possibilities are as endless as time itself, if a person will allow themselves to push their boundaries on what they think they know, open their minds and try to reach beyond their imagination. The philosophy forum that was here on c-d is the reason I joined c-d forever ago, but found a post on one of the first threads, that explained why people didn't discuss it --- a topic they were not familiar with enough to discuss.
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