Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Guys, thanks for the info on the 2000 Camp David negotiation, but honestly: I was really curious and started digging a little-I mean, that seemed like a fairly even proposal as described here.
The most cursory reading shows there’s quite a bit of uh, disagreement on the parameters of what was discussed. It doesn’t seem like it was a simple, clean 97% - but there’s no actual written record I can find other than some contradictory statements, and the sides all seem to be a little self-serving in their recollection.
I've heard Zionists say, we'll return Israel to the Palestinians when the U.S. returns North America to the Indians. But Zionists conveniently forget that Indians are full citizens in the U.S. (in addition to having optional reservations, i.e., they can enter the U.S. whenever they want, with full rights). Zionists forget that part.
You take the land, you take the people. And give them full rights.
Native Americans having citizen rights in the US is besides the point of the example. This was not the country that they founded and, since they are not the majority, do not have control over the USA. Even their reservations exist only by the grace of Congress. The point is that the Native Americans do not exercise control over the country, just like Palestinians don't exercise control over the West Bank.
Fine, let's see someone with authority to speak for the Palestinians [who would that be ???] offer a peace deal recognizing Israel's right to exist in the pre-1967 armistice lines. That should be easy to offer if it's what they'll accept.
You don't see any legitimacy to a Jewish nation of any size in that land.
There is NO legitimacy of Israel to stay beyond the pre-1967 borders. It could make the move unilaterally, after all, it didn't ask any indigenous Palestinians if they wanted to be dominated and repressed by Israel, did they?
The fact is the Palestinians always were there, Jewish settlers that came after 1948 were not. The Palestinians ancestors were Canaanites, just like the Jews were. In fact Palestinians WERE Jewish, before they converted to Islam.
Why are you so against them getting back the land stolen from them?
Going back to the pre-67 borders leaves Israel with a very narrow section that the Hamas terrorists, eager to destroy Israel, can easily overrun.
The Arabs shouldn’t have attacked Israel in 67. And it really was amazing triumph of Israel’s - a tiny little country attacked by three large Arab countries, and Israel defeated them in six days.
Most Palestinians are not Arabs, nor did they start that war. They are only the victims. Jewish settlers have less right to the land than the indigenous people who have lived there since the recording of time.
Native Americans having citizen rights in the US is besides the point of the example. This was not the country that they founded and, since they are not the majority, do not have control over the USA. Even their reservations exist only by the grace of Congress. The point is that the Native Americans do not exercise control over the country, just like Palestinians don't exercise control over the West Bank.
So, does make it right that the Palestinians lost their land and right of freedom of movement?
The Palestinians are indigenous to all of what is Israel now. Their homeland is not just a small slither of beach front, and a kidney landlocked area. If they want, they can demand it all back.
The Palestinians are indigenous to all of what is Israel now. Their homeland is not just a small slither of beach front, and a kidney landlocked area. If they want, they can demand it all back.
They can demand all they want but they will never get what they are demanding.
The longer they refuse to compromise, the worse their situation gets.
Both sides believe the land is theirs, but only one side is willing to compromise.
Your attitude is exactly the attitude that has prevented a peaceful solution all of these years.
The Palestinians should be thankful that Israel isn't a brutal country like Russia, or this would have been settled decades ago and it wouldn't have been pretty.
And they offered a land swap for the small piece they were keeping, which was a piece of land on the border, only inhabited by Jews, so it made sense for both sides to swap it.
They can accuse us of "gaslighting" all they want, but history is on our side. Israel wants nothing more than for this to be over and finally live in peace. They have proven it time and time again.
Look at the huge piece of land (the Sinai Peninsula) that they returned to Egypt in exchange for peace. It is 3 times the size of Israel, and it is full of oil. Israel won that land in a war that was waged on them. They managed to hold onto it for 15 years, with no indication that Egypt was in any shape to take it back from them. They gave it to Egypt in exchange for peace.
Hell, they gave away The West Bank once already in exchange for peace with Jordan. Why wouldn't they do it again? I wish Jordan kept it in the first place.
You forgot The Palestinians wanted a contiguous land bridge to Gaza, control of seaports and airports and UN peace keepers. They thought these were reasonable
As far as gaslighting. The intifada was stopped, the Oslo peace accords were signed and yigal Amir believed God gave the West Bank to the Jews and that if he murdered Rabin it would derail the peace process and stop a peace settlement and land given to Palestinians.
He Assassinates Rabin the peace process falls apart and his plan succeeds
You say no it’s all the Palestinians fault.
You are unable to criticize the Israelis who believe they have a god given right to violently drive Palestinians off the land, murder Israeli politicians, burn down Christian churches , commit atrocities against Palestinians even burning Arab children alive. These people praise Baruch Goldstein and Yigal Amir.
Ignore these people and the 1.8 million Palestinians living peacefully in Israel.
You forgot The Palestinians wanted a contiguous land bridge to Gaza, control of seaports and airports and UN peace keepers. They thought these were reasonable
As far as gaslighting. The intifada was stopped, the Oslo peace accords were signed and yigal Amir believed God gave the West Bank to the Jews and that if he murdered Rabin it would derail the peace process and stop a peace settlement and land given to Palestinians.
He Assassinates Rabin the peace process falls apart and his plan succeeds
You say no it’s all the Palestinians fault.
You are unable to criticize the Israelis who believe they have a god given right to violently drive Palestinians off the land, murder Israeli politicians, burn down Christian churches , commit atrocities against Palestinians even burning Arab children alive. These people praise Baruch Goldstein and Yigal Amir.
Ignore these people and the 1.8 million Palestinians living peacefully in Israel.
We are talking about the 2000 Camp David Summit with Ehud Barak, and the second intifada, not the first intifada.
That is where the Palestinians were offered all their land demands, including East Jerusalem as their capital. The only thing they were denied was the "right of return", which is code for "the end of Israel". That offer was met with the 2nd intifada.
When that happened, Israelis lost all hope of any peace agreement, and the country took a hard turn to the right.
They can demand all they want but they will never get what they are demanding.
The longer they refuse to compromise, the worse their situation gets.
Both sides believe the land is theirs, but only one side is willing to compromise.
Your attitude is exactly the attitude that has prevented a peaceful solution all of these years.
The Palestinians should be thankful that Israel isn't a brutal country like Russia, or this would have been settled decades ago and it wouldn't have been pretty.
The Palestinians did nothing wrong. The settlers took their land and are restricting there freedom. The settlers that came after 1948 are the ones committing the crimes.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
