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Freedom of movement and freedom of association are absolute natural rights.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324
The one does not have to do with the other.
Nature has everything to do with it and it would for you if you find yourself in battle with the elements. Mother Nature does not care about man's laws. This planet will continue to do what it has always done since its birth --- evolve. And either man evolves with it, or man dies. It's man's choice. Man has the same right as any other animal on this planet --- just because it has the capabilities to think that it doesn't, means nothing to the absolute reality.
We are born free --- funny for man's government to think we're not. Not everyone thinks that way, of course ...
"That a man ought not to be a slave; that he should not be confined against his will to a particular spot because he happened to draw his first breath upon it; that he should not be compelled to continue in a society to which he is accidentally attached, when he can better his situation elsewhere, much less when he must starve in one country, and may live comfortably in another, are positions which I hold as strongly as any man, and they are such as most nations in the world appear clearly to recognize." ~ Justice James Iredell ~
You are free to move about this world and socialize, just as nature intended for you to be ... the only one stopping you is your government.
Nature has everything to do with it and it would for you if you find yourself in battle with the elements. Mother Nature does not care about man's laws. This planet will continue to do what it has always done since its birth --- evolve. And either man evolves with it, or man dies. It's man's choice. Man has the same right as any other animal on this planet --- just because it has the capabilities to think that it doesn't, means nothing to the absolute reality.
We are born free --- funny for man's government to think we're not. Not everyone thinks that way, of course ...
"That a man ought not to be a slave; that he should not be confined against his will to a particular spot because he happened to draw his first breath upon it; that he should not be compelled to continue in a society to which he is accidentally attached, when he can better his situation elsewhere, much less when he must starve in one country, and may live comfortably in another, are positions which I hold as strongly as any man, and they are such as most nations in the world appear clearly to recognize." ~ Justice James Iredell ~
You are free to move about this world and socialize, just as nature intended for you to be ... the only one stopping you is your government.
With the advent of modern technology. That freedom was not given to people with limited mobility or means to communicate with foriegn people.
But anyways, it has nothing to do with it. If nature or freedom leads to instability, than they can both be true. But I would question the difference between whether would are able to do something and whether they inherently desire to do something.
Humans have the freedom to set themselves on fire but not many would want to do that.
With the advent of modern technology. That freedom was not given to people with limited mobility or means to communicate with foriegn people.
But anyways, it has nothing to do with it. If nature or freedom leads to instability, than they can both be true. But I would question the difference between whether would are able to do something and whether they inherently desire to do something.
Humans have the freedom to set themselves on fire but not many would want to do that.
You might be surprised. Have you seen the suicide rates just for the u.s. due to the loss of economic freedoms, I'm sure.
As this planet ages, many of the lands that are occupied by other human beings will cease to exist. No modern technology can help with that. The amount of refugees aka stateless folks, continues to rise due to a variety of issues that have led to their displacement. Government has seen to it they don't have a home to go to --- and that doesn't bother you?
You see them as people with no rights?
Nature is what you are born into with natural rights nature intended for you to have --- freedom are your choices to rationalize how to deal --- government is the taking of those choices so as to pigeon toe you into doing something you'd not naturally do, like drown on the land you were born on as it sinks into the ocean.
I'm not a fan of people. I never have been. It is something I wrestle with on a daily basis. While I can see all the good there are those that will do for others, there are those that seem to just go out of their way to dream up horrific ways in which to hurt others and then act on it.
I grew up watching 'animal kingdom', the only difference between man and all the other animals on this planet is its ability to rationalize the irrational. Even in that, I do have to recognize man's freedom as any other freedom any creature on this planet would have. Freedom of movement and migration is just one of those freedoms. It is what any animal will do when the environment in which they reside, becomes unstable.
How funny for other men to say --- no you can't do what nature intended for you to do --- but killing you because you did it is our natural right. Territorial is any animal may be on this planet, it's what we do. Americans maybe more than others I'm not sure, but I know it's weird for Americans to act that way considering if it wasn't for migration of other humans from all four corners of this earth --- this country wouldn't be here to begin with, much less to stop others from coming here.
It was founded on being a safe haven for others; it's turned into a place not so safe and we helped. (now we're back to the part where I'm not impressed with the rational of others)
You might be surprised. Have you seen the suicide rates just for the u.s. due to the loss of economic freedoms, I'm sure.
As this planet ages, many of the lands that are occupied by other human beings will cease to exist. No modern technology can help with that. The amount of refugees aka stateless folks, continues to rise due to a variety of issues that have led to their displacement. Government has seen to it they don't have a home to go to --- and that doesn't bother you?
You see them as people with no rights?
Nature is what you are born into with natural rights nature intended for you to have --- freedom are your choices to rationalize how to deal --- government is the taking of those choices so as to pigeon toe you into doing something you'd not naturally do, like drown on the land you were born on as it sinks into the ocean.
I'm not a fan of people. I never have been. It is something I wrestle with on a daily basis. While I can see all the good there are those that will do for others, there are those that seem to just go out of their way to dream up horrific ways in which to hurt others and then act on it.
I grew up watching 'animal kingdom', the only difference between man and all the other animals on this planet is its ability to rationalize the irrational. Even in that, I do have to recognize man's freedom as any other freedom any creature on this planet would have. Freedom of movement and migration is just one of those freedoms. It is what any animal will do when the environment in which they reside, becomes unstable.
How funny for other men to say --- no you can't do what nature intended for you to do --- but killing you because you did it is our natural right. Territorial is any animal may be on this planet, it's what we do. Americans maybe more than others I'm not sure, but I know it's weird for Americans to act that way considering if it wasn't for migration of other humans from all four corners of this earth --- this country wouldn't be here to begin with, much less to stop others from coming here.
It was founded on being a safe haven for others; it's turned into a place not so safe and we helped. (now we're back to the part where I'm not impressed with the rational of others)
Don't move the goal post. Just because people can do something does not mean (accepting mitigating circumstances) it is in their nature to do it. People naturally have a will to survive, external circumstances like emotional defeat does not mean people by and large wish to die.
The freedom to do something has nothing to do with if people want to do that thing. The problem is you assume if people can do something it is perfectly natural for them to just do it.
I'd say more like 15 or 16 years old. Can that poster possibly make more idiotic remarks?
I was responding to this person...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter_Sucks
Immigration only bothers weak people.
He said something ridiculous so I wanted to say something even more ridiculous. Though I should have said... "Only weak people don't invite illegal immigrants into their homes".
As Milton Friedman used to say, if you want to show someone the folly of an idea, take it to the extreme.
Can we agree that a massive influx of immigrants, legal or otherwise, will destabilize the social fabric of America?
yes,and it already has. The US is the largest welfare state in the world, and this is simply not compatible w/a policy of open borders.
Best case scenario is borders are privately enforced. You dont get in unless invited. Since no govt is likely to allow for such, borders and immigration as they exists today should at a min be the purview of the states.
And any state that is lax in border enforcement can be shut out by its neighboring states
It's weird for Americans to act that way considering if it wasn't for migration of other humans from all four corners of this earth --- this country wouldn't be here to begin with. It was founded on being a safe haven for others
This is a false history. The American colonies were created for one reason and one reason only, money. Though a more accurate description would be ”power” and the control/exploitation of resources. Every colony on Earth was created for that purpose. Whether it be Britain, Spain, France, even Italy, Sweden, Denmark, among others. Most colonies failed, partly because they couldn't defend themselves, and partly because of the difficulty of populating them.
The British needed people who were willing to pack up everything and get in a boat to cross an ocean in order to start a new life in a completely undeveloped land. The Atlantic voyage alone took weeks or months, and if a disease broke out on a ship, half the people might not make it. When they landed they were faced with a lack of basically everything and the ever-present threat of wildlife, indians, and starvation.
The first colony, Roanoke, was completely wiped out. No one knows what happened to the ~120 settlers. Many other settlements failed or partially-failed. The reason Britain began importing slaves was because no one else wanted to come here. Especially not to the south, which was hot, swampy, and full of malaria.
Secondly, America was not established by people ”from the four corners of the Earth”. It was established by Anglo-Saxons. There might have been other people here(slaves/indians/etc), but they had no part in the establishment of the United States. In fact, if they had had their way there wouldn't be a United States. Which is why the founding fathers did not give them a right to vote, or even to qualify for citizenship.
The United States has allowed immigrants to come to this country, but until WWII naturalization was limited only to white people. And even then we imposed nation-of-origin restrictions(e.g. quotas). Our immigration policy has always existed to serve the national interests. The moment immigration causes problems, we shut it off. This has happened multiple times in our history, and most acutely after the communist revolution, where immigration to the United States effectively stopped between 1921 and 1965.
We even turned away literal boatloads of Jews fleeing Nazi persecution.
Immigration exists to serve the national interests and not for humanitarian reasons. Which should be painfully obvious to anyone with a working brain.
Don't move the goal post. Just because people can do something does not mean (accepting mitigating circumstances) it is in their nature to do it. People naturally have a will to survive, external circumstances like emotional defeat does not mean people by and large wish to die.
The freedom to do something has nothing to do with if people want to do that thing. The problem is you assume if people can do something it is perfectly natural for them to just do it.
Oh for Pete's sake, if it wasn't in man's animalistic nature to migrate, we'd still be sitting on the continent of Africa watching the Lions play in the bush. That's not an assumption that's a fact --- All animals on this planet migrate; they always have. The problem here is, people have chosen to ignore, they are indeed animals. Upright standing maybe, but no different than any other ones that live and breathe ---- ps: another issue is man thinks he can change and control nature. ha! That's a whole other set of rules and laws that man can do nothing with --- adapt or get dead, that's it. No one can stop evolution. Man can name it and call it climate change, but man can't stop the inevitable.
Can we agree that a massive influx of immigrants, legal or otherwise, will destabilize the social fabric of America?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank DeForrest
yes,and it already has. The US is the largest welfare state in the world, and this is simply not compatible w/a policy of open borders.
Best case scenario is borders are privately enforced. You dont get in unless invited. Since no govt is likely to allow for such, borders and immigration as they exists today should at a min be the purview of the states.
And any state that is lax in border enforcement can be shut out by its neighboring states
Welfare, taxes, --- has absolutely nothing to do with a prayer on Sunday (a person's culture).
PS; we are bound by our creator --- funny for government to have us to believe they did the creation.
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Territorial is any animal may be on this planet, it's what we do. Americans maybe more than others I'm not sure, but I know it's weird for Americans to act that way considering if it wasn't for migration of other humans from all four corners of this earth --- this country wouldn't be here to begin with, much less to stop others from coming here.
