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This is not a debate about transgenderism in general and debating it would be off topic. It is strictly about whether a transgendered individual has an obligation to disclose their status prior to sexual activity.
One of the arguments in the date rape of inebriated individuals is that they were incapable of fully consenting to the sexual activity they engaged in, this includes if they agreed to say oral sex and it morphs into coitus. Additionally, it is considered rape if they agree to sex with one person and instead a different person pretending to be that person has sex with them (true case). So, how is it different if in the below instance when a man thought he was consenting to sex with a woman and it turns out to be a man?
Quote:
Etute explained to cops that he matched with a person named "Angie" on Tinder thinking that it was a woman. According to the police statements, Etute went to the victim’s apartment on April 10 for oral sex. Over one month later, Etute went back to the same apartment to engage in more sexual activity, but that’s when he discovered that the person he matched with was actually a man.
When he discovered that "Angie" was a man, Etute said that he attacked the victim, which included punching him five times in the face and he continued to punch and stomp on him when he fell to the ground.
This had an extremely bad outcome. There are going to be people that claim this is a hate crime to which I say absolute bullcrap. I am not excusing the murder, but as far as I am concerned the guy was sexually assaulted. He did not consent to having a biological male perform oral sex on him, which is very clear from his visceral reaction when he did find out. I do not think he should prosecuted any differently than other rape victims who have returned after they were safe and killed their rapist. The non-consensual sexual activity needs to considered a mitigating factor.
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I don't see it as being much different than someone with a communicable deadly disease having sex and spreading that disease. That point needs to be made clear before the fact; otherwise it should be considered a victimization type crime. The male who passed himself off as female and did not make that clear before the fact is 100% at fault. (or "was" in this case)
The overall theme is they see themselves as women and we’re transphobic if we don’t and they shouldn’t have to disclose, atleast until they’re ready because it’s their medical info.
I argue it should be disclosed up front. Even before a first date; don’t waste my time and money if I’ll clearly not be interested after. Isn’t that something women complain about when it comes to dating?
Man/woman… fine… blur those lines.
IMO there is no changing male/female; so maybe dating apps need to change to using that designation vs man/woman. A trans woman to me is still by biology a gay male. I’m not transphobic by not wanting to date one; that is my preference. If I’m supposed to respect their preference, what about mine?
The next fall back is “well if you were looking for kids what if the woman ends up unable to have kids?” That’s fine though. That’s not one that comes from deceit.
The person in your story should be tried for murder as any other… but as I often say in these discussions is also what did the victim expect? If women could easily inflict bodily harm on those that sexually assault them then wouldn’t they do the same? The guy didn’t seek out a trans to murder; that is a hate crime. The guy got enraged to find someone deceived him and entered into sexual interactions under that deceit. It was an emotional lashing out to the betrayal.
Apparently he didn't mind it at the time it was happening.
I vote no unless while engaged in a sexual act he said stop and Angie refused to stop.
Regret is not rape.
I wouldn't call it rape, but I would be outraged if I had sex with an apparent man (complete with genitalia) and then found out that he used to be a woman!
That isn't and won't be an issue for me as I am 67 and happily married (and if I am ever widowed, I won't be dating again -- and, yes, I am sure about that for many reasons), but I would hate to think that people would need to ask "Have you have you added or lost any body parts since puberty?" before they accept a date if that mattered to them.
P.S. But murder like that described is absolutely wrong and not justified at all, imo, and the murderer should get the same penalty whether the person he murdered was transgendered or not.
Last edited by katharsis; 06-10-2021 at 08:26 AM..
I know a transgendered young woman who frequently discusses issues such as this on FB. Her assertion is that she is a woman in every way, and as such doesn’t feel the need to share her trans sexuality with potential suitors. She also calls men who do not wish to date her “transphobic”, along with plenty of other colorful names. She has had a couple bad experiences with straight men that she pursued, only to have them decline her offers due to her trans sexuality.
I don’t bother any longer trying to explain that there is some dishonesty going on on her part. Her sexuality and subsequent issues after all are hers to deal with in my opinion, not everyone else’s. She wants to complain but doesn’t really want advice. Ok then. I’ve warned her however that abuse of transwomen sometimes stems from this type of duplicity, and leave it at that.
Apparently he didn't mind it at the time it was happening.
I vote no unless while engaged in a sexual act he said stop and Angie refused to stop.
Regret is not rape.
He didn’t mind because he thought he was with a female. That was a falsehood. In this nation we believe sexual preferences are so fundamental to a person’s identity, happiness, and even psychological well-being that we turned a 2000+ year definition of marriage on its head. I do happen to agree with that. If you support same sex marriage it is hypocritical to turn around and claim this does not matter.
If you are dating Tom, who is an identical twin, is it okay if his twin Doug comes in your room one night when you are tipsy (so you miss little nuances) and has sex with you? Just as long as you didn’t mind it at the time?
__________________
When I post in bold red that is moderator action and, per the TOS, can only be discussed through Direct Message.
This is not a debate about transgenderism in general and debating it would be off topic. It is strictly about whether a transgendered individual has an obligation to disclose their status prior to sexual activity.
One of the arguments in the date rape of inebriated individuals is that they were incapable of fully consenting to the sexual activity they engaged in, this includes if they agreed to say oral sex and it morphs into coitus. Additionally, it is considered rape if they agree to sex with one person and instead a different person pretending to be that person has sex with them (true case). So, how is it different if in the below instance when a man thought he was consenting to sex with a woman and it turns out to be a man?
This had an extremely bad outcome. There are going to be people that claim this is a hate crime to which I say absolute bullcrap. I am not excusing the murder, but as far as I am concerned the guy was sexually assaulted. He did not consent to having a biological male perform oral sex on him, which is very clear from his visceral reaction when he did find out. I do not think he should prosecuted any differently than other rape victims who have returned after they were safe and killed their rapist. The non-consensual sexual activity needs to considered a mitigating factor.
Yes. It would be. It's under false pretenses.
Having said that, I'm so glad I'm happily married. Been married almost 25 years to a beautiful woman who is my best friend. I don't need to worry about that garbage.
I don't see it as being much different than someone with a communicable deadly disease having sex and spreading that disease. That point needs to be made clear before the fact; otherwise it should be considered a victimization type crime. The male who passed himself off as female and did not make that clear before the fact is 100% at fault. (or "was" in this case)
This, while criminal, is NOT charged as rape.
I don't think this would qualify as rape or sexual assault, either. There are plenty of people in the world with different sex chromosomes (e.g., XO, XXY, etc.) that do not need to "disclose" their karyotype before sex.
If you were attracted to them, what difference does it make?
It's also not rape if someone doesn't tell you they are unable to have children, that they are intersex, that their salary is 10x less than may be perceived, that their hair is *really* gray, or that they wear a toupee. Those people may all be rapists, but not disclosing that information does not make it rape.
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