Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I would rank Nixon as a Bottom 15 president, lowest quarter fo' sho'
But while he did reach out to cold war enemies through symbolic visits and handshakes with Soviets and Chinese, his rampant bombing of North Vietnamese cities helped push for an end to war just as his domestic policies pushed for an end to the availability of gasoline. *rimshot*
But seriously, in addition to Watergate, it was Nixon's tax evasion that brought his resignation to the table, and his attitude of "It is not illegal if the president does it"
Well, Tricky Dicky, yes it is. All citizens, even the president are guided and guarded by the constitution. All laws that are passed by congress, as laid out in the constitution, apply to all citizens. No exception is made for the president not paying taxes.
His administration formulated the most archaic drug laws that to this day, do not work. We are still an addicted and unhappy nation. (Addicts are unhappy people....I have treated many of them) The drug laws need to change.
I would say that the draconian and ineffective drug laws this nation has, which have spurred crime and addiction, are probably the worst long term legacy of Nixon's administration.
The gas shortage? Conspiracy or truth? Nixon took a lot of blame for it, from the creation of it to his handling it. "Banning*" Christmas lights that one year pushed many of us over the edge.
The man was very unpopular at the time, I remember that. He had numerous enemies. He was a wily con artist.
But in regards to Trump, I think we need to hold off ranking a president until they have been out of office 4 to 8 years to see the long term effects of the policies. That is the way the "experts" handle it, and it is a more scholarly approach to allow emotions to settle down.
If we poll people today , without a list, go out and ask who are the best and worst presidents of all time, answers are going to be heavily listed with recent presidents. Trump will be on both lists probably more than anyone. Clinton, Bush, Obama also may be listed.
Interesting that I was at the neighborhood liquor store (I only buy catnip for medicinal purposes) I noticed that they have a whisky called James Buchanan Whisky, I made comment to the clerk, who was at least as old as I am, about having a scotch named after the worst president this country ever had. He did not even know who James Buchanan was or why he was such a bad leader. He thought James Buchanan was just a scotch maker. I told him no, he made a big mess of the country too.
As of now, I would put Trump 3rd worst, with Andrew Johnson and James Buchanan the worst of the worst. Harding, Hoover, all have their place. Nixon may well be in the bottom ten but he tried to improve foreign relations first with diplomacy, the second with bombs when the first did not work. Ford never had a chance to prove his abilities coming on Nixon's heals, and Carter was inept, possibly because Nixon had so many people angry at the GOP (guilty by association) that Carter won easily against Ford, (regardless of what the statistic show) Ford probably would have been a more effective president had he been given a full term to continue working, but, we will never know, until tomorrow, when one of us rewrites the revisionist style of history to suit the values and emotions of the day.
* Was not an outright ban, but he basically "suggested it" in a presidential way. That was back when people still mostly obeyed the president.
This is where I have to say --- I flunked history. Probably the only difference between me and that store clerk you mentioned is that I remember names --- not so much what they did though. What you said about Nixon, if you swap out the name Nixon for the name Trump, the description fits. As for as exceptions in laws, any potus ever go to jail? Serve time other than just being impeached or censured? And what does the Constitution have to say about it?
Worst potus ever --- would belong to any of them, in the history of this country, pending on who you asked.
I was in middle school, what they use to call junior high, when Nixon was elected. I didn't follow politics. My father followed politics. If any classmates brought up politics in group discussions, my eyes glassed over and I thought about being anywhere but there. I was one of no opinion. The night of the election, my father, sitting in front of the t.v. set watching intensely as the numbers rolled in over the screen and at one point he stood up and said, 'the numbers don't add up'. I remember it because, that was the point at which I decided voting was one less thing to put on my adult to do list, because it didn't seem like it would matter if I did.
Roughly 25 years ago --- I met a couple, they are a nice couple, heavy into politics. It was at that time I got a computer, setup email, start leaning about the machines to the point where I could take one a part and put it back together --- because I had to get real, paying some one else to do it, was not going to happen. Email chat with my new found couple friends --- and what they wanted to talk about politics and it was the Bush years --- and when the subject went into certain things that were going on that were not ethical, but were happening in the political arena, that's when the fun really began. We stayed friends, time and distance we don't visit as often, but what they said to me then stuck --- 'we like that we can't tell which party affiliate you are'.
I'm on the side of good ethical behavior --- that's my party.
And I can say this with most certainty about Trump (then & now) Trump is of the party of Trump. The reason the Republicans didn't like him is because they could not control him. No one knew what was going to come out of his mouth next and if it wouldn't start a war. As much as his lack of good ethical behavior made him a person not for the job, it was the thing that made him exactly right for the job, in this day and time. That and the fact no one can control him. The later, being the only thing I saw positive during his stay in the WH.
As for as Nixon, other than the splashy headlines of Watergate --- I got nothing. I want to say he was the one that woke up the Boomer generation, that all is not well in this country. However, they were waking up during the Johnson Administration to that --- reasons for war; are there good ones?
An older friend of mine right after the 2nd election of Bush and the bad vote counts (remember those and the FSC) and I said to him, so we really don't know who the potus elect really is? And he said --- Congress runs the country, so it really doesn't matter --- and to that I give food for thought --- do any of them that were potus fit into the rank of worse potus, after all, when all is said and done, isn't it Congress who makes the final calls. If not, isn't there something wrong, because I don't think voting in a dictator every four years is the kind of democracy the Americans died for in the American Revolution, but then, I'm not political, so I could be wrong.
Trump had a reputation in the 80s for being a scoundrel. He was most famous for harassing the tenants in the buildings he bought so as to make them move --- so he could turn the NY Rent Controlled apartment buildings into condos. When the tenants would sue him, he'd say --- "see you in court." He used the same line when he was potus; I laughed. What a tweeb --- His reputation for corruption, proceeds him and his being the most disliked person in the 80s, every one in 2016, sprouted amnesia ... he came from backroom shady deals to being potus --- craziest thing I think I have ever seen.
So no he isn't the worst because of his obsessive nature with the tweet platform --- Trump is the worst, because that's the way he was and always will be. imo, the worst, is people didn't seem to care.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SanJuanStar
So now you want to change the rules of most corrupted President to their Pre President life in the private sector. Have you ever heard of the Kennedy Klan and how Joseph Sr. made the family's fortune and how he treated his 2 daughters which was brutal? How about their son who was a U.S. Senator that left a woman drown slowly (it took hours for her to drown) while he was drunk and use his family connections to not only get away with it but keep his Senate seat and become the #1 leader for the Democrats in the Senate until his death 4 decades later. Where do you rank that in your corruption list?
But Trump is the most corrupt President according to you because when he was a private citizen he went to civil court in a country and state that is very easy to go to civil court especially about renting apartments? . Isn't that what you are supposed to do when 2 parties have a disagreement, go to civil court? but in your world that is corruption.
If Trump did anything criminal when he was a private citizen in N.Y., why wasn't he charged with a crime by either N.Y. state (Democrat fully control state) or the DOJ (under both parties) it wasn't after he won the Presidency in 2016 that he became the most racist and most corrupted President in history (the joke of all of this) You allegations or wishful thinking are not facts in any court of all.
I say sit down or take a real American history course. Trump is a baby compared to the Presidents in history in their public and personal life.
I might be wrong but I think Trump would be offended being called a baby.
I'm not changing anything --- the people maybe changing, but I'm not. May be that's an issue unto itself.
As for as his business dealings in NY --- it's all in print, archived, but in print.
So if someone commits a murder their defense should be I am not the first person to commit murder so I should be let go? Nixon got caught. That is all that needs to be said.
Nixon did a lot of good things. But the watergate break in is not one of them. Trump to his credit has pretty much erased all the attention and hatred towards Nixon. Democrats really hate Trump. I don't think Nixon is on the radar any longer. I think your thread is outdated by 5 years or so.
I think Nixon still is hated, the problem is those that were of voting age for the Nixonian years are largely not as vocal in politics. A 1972 voter would be at the least 67 today considering that it was the first federal election year with the 18 years of age voting criteria.
Nixon ultimately had to bring the Vietnam War to a end... still he made it worse before he had no choice. Having us also invade Cambodia brought Protest to a head and a America turning to enough.
Then lest we forget.... Nixon's trip to China opened that one way de-industrialization ticket for America and brought China fast-speed forward though the 20th century. Our Corporations moving over decades and abandoning our Northern cities especially. Now China is its own beast. We can blame ourselves for most of it.
Almost 50 years after his resignation and almost 30 years after his death, former President Richard Nixon is still talked about as a uniquely evil figure in the USA. In fact, Nixon supposedly inflicted scars on this nation that can never heal. Does anyone really believe he was the first President to commit crimes in office? And what radically evil acts did he commit? Don’t tell me Watergate.
Nixon was a crook, that should have been prosecuted. If only Gerald Ford didn’t exonerate him, Ford could have been elected instead of Carter, and would have likely blocked Reagan and his failed trickle down economics. Reagan was the president that really galvanized the Republican Party, as the party for the rich. Reagan introduced taxing on unemployment, and social security. He got rid of writing off interest on car loans and credit cards, and he introduced an incredible amount of tax loopholes for the rich, which allowed many, to this day not pay any taxes. Reagan had us hoodwinked.
I might be wrong but I think Trump would be offended being called a baby.
I'm not changing anything --- the people maybe changing, but I'm not. May be that's an issue unto itself.
As for as his business dealings in NY --- it's all in print, archived, but in print.
I'm still waiting to hear in what law or EO that makes Trump the worst President. So all these years in NY and nobody in the state government that is run by Democrats charged him with a crime.
Nixon was a crook, that should have been prosecuted. If only Gerald Ford didn’t exonerate him, Ford could have been elected instead of Carter, and would have likely blocked Reagan and his failed trickle down economics. Reagan was the president that really galvanized the Republican Party, as the party for the rich. Reagan introduced taxing on unemployment, and social security. He got rid of writing off interest on car loans and credit cards, and he introduced an incredible amount of tax loopholes for the rich, which allowed many, to this day not pay any taxes. Reagan had us hoodwinked.
like the Democrats were honest Angels. You probably didn't read the Pentagon Papers or that President called LBJ or just are a democrat hack.
Reagan had a Democrat congress. All the Reagan placed, Biden approved it in the Senate and Clinton and Obama supported for 16 years in power. Reagan was so bad that 49 states including all Democrat states except 1 voted for him. I guess they are all dumb and you are smart. I guess you were in a coma under Carter and are clueless about Mondale and Dukakis.
Democrat want endless free stuff and when you tax them because it has to be paid, they complain.
Nixon ultimately had to bring the Vietnam War to a end... still he made it worse before he had no choice. Having us also invade Cambodia brought Protest to a head and a America turning to enough.
Then lest we forget.... Nixon's trip to China opened that one way de-industrialization ticket for America and brought China fast-speed forward though the 20th century. Our Corporations moving over decades and abandoning our Northern cities especially. Now China is its own beast. We can blame ourselves for most of it.
So hard to give Nixon much luv.
Nixon inherited the Vietnam war mess and the bigger picture the Cold Car. Opening relations and trade with China to only deal with the Soviets was smart. That kept Asia from going communism.
It was either that or go to WW 3 with China, which after Vietnam, most of you libs weren't waiting in long lines to volunteer.
you forget JFK/LBJ left Nixon a mess in Vietnam. You should read the Pentagon papers.
Quote:
The Pentagon Papers revealed that the United States had expanded its war with the bombing of Cambodia and Laos, coastal raids on North Vietnam, and Marine Corps attacks, none of which had been reported by the American media.The most damaging revelations in the papers revealed that four administrations (Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, and Johnson) had misled the public regarding their intentions. For example, the Eisenhower administration actively worked against the Geneva Accords. The John F. Kennedy administration knew of plans to overthrow South Vietnamese leader Ngo Dinh Diem before his death in a November 1963 coup. President Johnson had decided to expand the war while promising "we seek no wider war" during his 1964 presidential campaign,[11] including plans to bomb North Vietnam well before the 1964 Election. President Johnson had been outspoken against doing so during the election and claimed that his opponent Barry Goldwater was the one that wanted to bomb North Vietnam.
Quote:
Another controversy was that President Johnson sent combat troops to Vietnam by July 17, 1965,before pretending to consult his advisors on July 21–27, per the cable stating that "Deputy Secretary of DefenseCyrus Vance informs McNamara that President had approved 34 Battalion Plan and will try to push through reserve call-up.
Quote:
Goldwater said: During the campaign, President Johnson kept reiterating that he would never send American boys to fight in Vietnam. As I say, he knew at the time that American boys were going to be sent. In fact, I knew about ten days before the Republican Convention. You see I was being called a trigger-happy, warmonger, bomb happy, and all the time Johnson was saying, he would never send American boys, I knew damn well he would
LBJ is the biggest war criminal and liar in the W.H. and he has tough competition.
If that was true, then why did Nixon continue the war? The entire objective was to keep Asia from going Communist. If trading with China would have stopped the spread, the war was no longer needed..
You wanted Nixon to pack and leave South Vietnam alone in 1972. Wasn't the goal all along Vietnamization? You don't think his deal with China helped the 1973 Paris Peace Accords? Don't answer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by banjomike
All in all, it sounds to me like you weren't around in the 1960s, at least as an adult.
It's call reading history. Don't tell me your history curiosity starts in the 1960's when you were an "adult", what was that 18? . Where you alive for WW 2 and anything before? You must be over 200 years old to attend history class.
I think Nixon still is hated, the problem is those that were of voting age for the Nixonian years are largely not as vocal in politics. A 1972 voter would be at the least 67 today considering that it was the first federal election year with the 18 years of age voting criteria.
That is true but I think Trump helped to take Nixon off the radar as has father time. Nixon was the poster boy for decades for democrats saying look who was a GOP President. Trump now is.
But this attempt to white wash history. What Nixon did was worthy of being removed from office. In fact he resigned because he would have been removed by both parties. It was not just a partisan hatchet job like the Clinton and Trump impeachments.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
