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It's been 27 years since Charles Murray wrote The Bell Curve. Now his new book expands on that work's most controversial themes.
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The charges of white privilege and systemic racism that are tearing the country apart fIoat free of reality. Two known facts, long since documented beyond reasonable doubt, need to be brought into the open and incorporated into the way we think about public policy: American whites, blacks, Hispanics, and Asians have different violent crime rates and different means and distributions of cognitive ability. The allegations of racism in policing, college admissions, segregation in housing, and hiring and promotions in the workplace ignore the ways in which the problems that prompt the allegations of systemic racism are driven by these two realities.
What good can come of bringing them into the open? America’s most precious ideal is what used to be known as the American Creed: People are not to be judged by where they came from, what social class they come from, or by race, color, or creed. They must be judged as individuals. The prevailing Progressive ideology repudiates that ideal, demanding instead that the state should judge people by their race, social origins, religion, sex, and sexual orientation.
We on the center left and center right who are the American Creed’s natural defenders have painted ourselves into a corner. We have been unwilling to say openly that different groups have significant group differences. Since we have not been willing to say that, we have been left defenseless against the claims that racism is to blame. What else could it be? We have been afraid to answer. We must. Facing Reality is a step in that direction.
I couldn't agree more. With media, politicians, even corporations, now presenting outcome differences as if they are unquestionable proof of bias and racism, we desperately need a more rational analysis.
Well, you know the left. They only want to follow the science when it says what they want it to say. Otherwise, they either do not follow it or try to change the science.
Well, you know the left. They only want to follow the science when it says what they want it to say. Otherwise, they either do not follow it or try to change the science.
As long as we are facing reality, let's confront some problems on the right.
For a long time, centuries even, the American business class has embraced an "up by your bootstraps" mythology in which hard work can overcome all adversity.
It's not true.
If you are born with certain cognitive deficits, there are tasks you can never do, no matter how much you practice or how hard you work. I think everyone knows this but we don't talk about it because it goes against the national ethos.
Business interests cynically use bootstraps rhetoric to increase productivity and increase morale. It's disingenuous flattery. Who is going to work harder if you know you won't rise above your station?
Now we do this with children all the time, tell them to follow their dreams, and the process of unveiling is very gentle and gradual. So it does have a place.
However in the working world between consenting adults these types of psychological mind tricks should be discouraged. As I said, everyone faces this reality on some level, tacitly, yet some cynically use happy talk to ultimately make more money.
The implications of this for right-wing rhetoric on things like welfare and criminal justice are profound. If it's not a choice, why should you be punished? We can debate about where to draw lines, how much social assistance is enough for those who cannot provide for themselves, and how much incarceration is enough to guarantee the safety of others from those with criminal proclivities.
But when you face reality, a lot of right-wing beliefs don't pass muster either.
As long as we are facing reality, let's confront some problems on the right.
For a long time, centuries even, the American business class has embraced an "up by your bootstraps" mythology in which hard work can overcome all adversity.
It's not true.
If you are born with certain cognitive deficits, there are tasks you can never do, no matter how much you practice or how hard you work. I think everyone knows this but we don't talk about it because it goes against the national ethos.
Business interests cynically use bootstraps rhetoric to increase productivity and increase morale. It's disingenuous flattery. Who is going to work harder if you know you won't rise above your station?
Now we do this with children all the time, tell them to follow their dreams, and the process of unveiling is very gentle and gradual. So it does have a place.
However in the working world between consenting adults these types of psychological mind tricks should be discouraged. As I said, everyone faces this reality on some level, tacitly, yet some cynically use happy talk to ultimately make more money.
The implications of this for right-wing rhetoric on things like welfare and criminal justice are profound. If it's not a choice, why should you be punished? We can debate about where to draw lines, how much social assistance is enough for those who cannot provide for themselves, and how much incarceration is enough to guarantee the safety of others from those with criminal proclivities.
But when you face reality, a lot of right-wing beliefs don't pass muster either.
Much truth here, however, the basic tenents still apply. Hard work, reasonably hard work, sacrifice, education, etc., can and do improve people's situations. It not a zero sum game, but yes certain groups and people have distinct advantages. They can and do move up and down economically and socially with what they are willing to do.
So Equity is not possible but equality of opportunity is what we should strive for not UNEARNED equal outcomes.
It has long been perfectly acceptable to praise blacks as the best singers; the best dancers; the best musicians; the best athletes; etc..
However, if you praise whites and Asians as the best learners, or the smartest, it often raises cries of racism and brings out angry protesters.
Discussion of cognitive ability is one of many topics that are actively suppressed by the black community. I can't think of ANY topics that are similarly suppressed by any other race or ethnic group.
This new book examines unequal distribution of cognitive ability along with disparate rates of violence.
As long as we are facing reality, let's confront some problems on the right.
For a long time, centuries even, the American business class has embraced an "up by your bootstraps" mythology in which hard work can overcome all adversity.
It's not true.
If you are born with certain cognitive deficits, there are tasks you can never do, no matter how much you practice or how hard you work. I think everyone knows this but we don't talk about it because it goes against the national ethos.
Business interests cynically use bootstraps rhetoric to increase productivity and increase morale. It's disingenuous flattery. Who is going to work harder if you know you won't rise above your station?
Now we do this with children all the time, tell them to follow their dreams, and the process of unveiling is very gentle and gradual. So it does have a place.
However in the working world between consenting adults these types of psychological mind tricks should be discouraged. As I said, everyone faces this reality on some level, tacitly, yet some cynically use happy talk to ultimately make more money.
The implications of this for right-wing rhetoric on things like welfare and criminal justice are profound. If it's not a choice, why should you be punished? We can debate about where to draw lines, how much social assistance is enough for those who cannot provide for themselves, and how much incarceration is enough to guarantee the safety of others from those with criminal proclivities.
But when you face reality, a lot of right-wing beliefs don't pass muster either.
Awesome post and amazing insight!
Unfortunately, I couldn't rep you again.
Point of disagreement: not all children are raised the same way and this can have a far greater impact on development than genetics.
Those Jewish kids that grow up to be our dentists, accountants and attorneys are raised by Jewish mothers that are married to Jewish husbands.
Everyone is on the same page from day one about how these children will be raised.
Success is the norm and it is expected while deviations are not tolerated.
The same goes for Asian parents.
They don't become parents simply because they don't like wearing a rubber.
They also don't blame their troubles on an underfunded school system, racist standardized tests, racist police, racist drug laws, red-lining, white people in general or systemic racism.
-The simple fact of the matter is I couldn't prevent a black person from doing whatever he/she wanted to do in life, even if I were the foaming at the mouth racist I'm said to be.
No one could.
I know you can’t. That you’re feckless doesn’t take any convincing. I’ve never subscribed to the notion that white men are supermen. I know better. So I don’t know why you’re telling me this as if there’s any possibility that I thought otherwise.
As for your Jews and Asian example, I’m not gonna bother with the Jewish part of the equation because they’re all white for the most part. I lump them in with the likes of you.
Asians on the other hand have had some success (many Asian groups have not, but we’ll just focus on the groups that do), and that’s great news. I don’t resent another man’s success. But Asians are not comparable to blacks in this country in ANY way. Their experience in this country is in no way similar to ours. Our histories in this country couldn’t be anymore different. The African American experience is a stand alone experience, so I’m not taking any bait that attempts to pit blacks vs Asians. It ain’t happening. Put the black experience in this country against another group with the near same experience as ours, and then we can talk.
Fact is, you laud the Asian community not so much for their success, but because you see them as less threatening and confrontational. If they have issues with whites (and boy do they...they just don’t tell YOU), you’re less likely to get pushback from them because of their smaller numbers and tendency to let these matters slide. But in any case, that’s none of my business. I’ll let Asians deal with their own issues.
You’re not going to get anywhere trying to use other groups as a cudgel against blacks to further your argument. We reject it categorically, and these other groups reject being used by the likes of you in that way. If you’re on one side of the table and I’m on the other, you and I have to settle the matter ourselves. You’re not gonna get help from any other groups. So leave them out of it.
As long as we are facing reality, let's confront some problems on the right.
For a long time, centuries even, the American business class has embraced an "up by your bootstraps" mythology in which hard work can overcome all adversity.
It's not true.
If you are born with certain cognitive deficits, there are tasks you can never do, no matter how much you practice or how hard you work. I think everyone knows this but we don't talk about it because it goes against the national ethos.
Business interests cynically use bootstraps rhetoric to increase productivity and increase morale. It's disingenuous flattery. Who is going to work harder if you know you won't rise above your station?
Now we do this with children all the time, tell them to follow their dreams, and the process of unveiling is very gentle and gradual. So it does have a place.
However in the working world between consenting adults these types of psychological mind tricks should be discouraged. As I said, everyone faces this reality on some level, tacitly, yet some cynically use happy talk to ultimately make more money.
The implications of this for right-wing rhetoric on things like welfare and criminal justice are profound. If it's not a choice, why should you be punished?We can debate about where to draw lines, how much social assistance is enough for those who cannot provide for themselves, and how much incarceration is enough to guarantee the safety of others from those with criminal proclivities.
But when you face reality, a lot of right-wing beliefs don't pass muster either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Futuremauian
Awesome post and amazing insight!
Unfortunately, I couldn't rep you again.
He starts out strong but he loses me when he starts to suggest that people with lesser abilities shouldn't bother trying their hardest because they'll never rise to the top. Then he goes on to suggest people should get a what....a stupidity stipend? Money for being dumb? Taking race out of it, the path towards equal opportunity is hindered by competition between Americans at the lower end of the cognitive scale and peasants from the third world who cross our borders illegally and are willing to work for a pittance, and outsourcing of jobs to third world peasants who remain in their third world countries and work under conditions and payrates that would be illegal in most developed nations.
Not everyone has what it takes to climb to the top rung of the ladder but we each have our own top rung that we can reasonably hope to attain and we should be encouraged to put in the effort to reach that rung and maybe a little bit beyond. We must also strive to create economic conditions that allow people on the lower rungs to thrive as well, if less lavishly. Asking them to provide for themselves in a labor pool which includes the poorest and most desperate people on the planet is not the way to accomplish that.
You’re intentionally downplaying individual ability, motivation, willingness to sacrifice, discipline, etc., and chalking success all up to external forces. That’s the liberal approach: a person who fails does because of external forces (racism these days) or succeeds due to external forces (who you know, etc.).
Many people do better than others because they are just smarter.....more motivated....make better decisions....
Sometimes the grass is greener on the other side because they take better care of it.
Sometimes the grass is greener on the other side because they take better care of it.
Precisely! Earlier this week, a friend came over to my house and brought along her sister. She later told me that her sister practically stomped her feet and cried, “why can’t *I* have a house like Rachel’s?!” (She rents.)
The answer is obvious: “Rachel went to college, had a decent career (not phenomenal, but successful enough), made sacrifices to start and build up her own business - and you barely got through high school, and have worked either retail or secretarial jobs all your life.”
IOW, I earned it, and she did not not. Why are we so afraid to state the obvious, and instreas chalk things up to racism?
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