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Old 07-08-2021, 07:54 PM
 
72,874 posts, read 62,362,868 times
Reputation: 21825

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Quote:
Originally Posted by paracord View Post
Got it. Washington, with his hundreds of slaves, was "compromising."

It is me, or is it weird that the anti-confederates are suddenly going all-out in defending other slave owners and administrators of institutional racism?

Bashing confederates is the "in" thing to do now on the wokester side. You're desperate to keep the conversation there though, even if it makes you a hypocrite, because you're not ready for the backlash that would happen if you went after the Founding Fathers.

Give it time.
Black people have been bashing Confederates long before the uber-woke were doing it. Black people have always had a problem with Confederates.
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Old 07-08-2021, 08:00 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
He sure did. He called it out, in the early 20th century. Of course, there were many who would soon ignore W.E.B. DuBois.

Whenever I hear people claim that no one was bothered by Confederate states/the Confederate flag until now, I disagree. No one ever asked Black people how they felt about such monuments in those days. We always here about "the woke".

Consider this. There has been a long connection between the Confederate flag and bigotry. And not just in the South. Marquette Park in Chicago was a major flash point for racial tensions. In August 1966, Dr. Martin Luther King Jr led a march through Marquette Park and Gage Park. People who were against Dr. King were flying Confederate flags and Nazi flags, and were attacking the marchers. Why was the Confederate flag being flown so frequently by those who opposed integration and wanted to keep racial segregation? That is a question many people need to ask themselves.
Sometimes I wonder? Ok, admittedly, I almost always wonder. & when I do, I nearly always consider these:

"People with power have an incredible capacity for wanting to be able to retain that power & don't like scrutiny."
~Desmond Tutu

"You cannot teach a person something it is in his best interests not to know."
~British Prime Minister Benjamin Disraeli

"You cannot wake up someone who is only pretending to be asleep."
~Navajo proverb

& underlying all:

"The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing. One cannot help but be in awe when one contemplates the mysteries of eternity, of life, of the marvellous structure of reality.
~Albert Einstein
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Old 07-08-2021, 08:00 PM
 
72,874 posts, read 62,362,868 times
Reputation: 21825
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest View Post
This is the strangest life I've ever known.
The neo-Confederate propaganda isn't considered strange for some people. It's easier for some people to swallow that than to hear the truth. It's easy to believe "slavery wasn't so bad, and it wasn't even the main reason the Confederates fought". It's easy for a person to believe that if it means feeling good about one's self.
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Old 07-08-2021, 08:04 PM
 
Location: *
13,242 posts, read 4,901,503 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
Black people have been bashing Confederates long before the uber-woke were doing it. Black people have always had a problem with Confederates.
An excellent resource in reality-based history:

BLACK RECONSTRUCTION
AN ESSAY TOWARD A HISTORY OF THE PART WHICH BLACK FOLK PLAYED IN THE ATTEMPT TO RECONSTRUCT DEMOCRACY IN AMERICA,
1860-1880


BY
W. E. Burghardt Du Bois PROFESSOR OF SOCIOLOGY IN THE ATLANTA UNIVERSITY


https://warwick.ac.uk/fac/arts/engli...nstruction.pdf
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Old 07-08-2021, 08:11 PM
 
72,874 posts, read 62,362,868 times
Reputation: 21825
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest View Post
Sometimes I wonder? Ok, admittedly, I almost always wonder. & when I do, I nearly always consider these:

"People with power have an incredible capacity for wanting to be able to retain that power & don't like scrutiny."
~Desmond Tutu

"You cannot teach a person something it is in his best interests not to know."
~British Prime Minister Benjamin Disraeli

"You cannot wake up someone who is only pretending to be asleep."
~Navajo proverb

& underlying all:

"The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing. One cannot help but be in awe when one contemplates the mysteries of eternity, of life, of the marvellous structure of reality.
~Albert Einstein
Some people don't want to know better. It means being required to do better. Doing better means giving up some of that power. It means being humbled. It means admitting when one is wrong.

People with absolute power don't like being questions. Being questioned makes it harder to retain that power. For some people, it isn't in their best interest to know better. It means no more excuses. And you cannot wake someone up who is pretending to be sleeping. They're awake and wish they were asleep. Said Navajo proverb can be applied to someone who plays dumb. Said person plays dumb because it allows an excuse.

There are still some things I question. One thing I've questioned is why some people continue to hold on to the Confederate Lost Cause, even after been told the truth. And like you, I start to understand why. Some people don't want to know better.
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Old 07-08-2021, 08:31 PM
 
Location: *
13,242 posts, read 4,901,503 times
Reputation: 3461
Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
Some people don't want to know better. It means being required to do better. Doing better means giving up some of that power. It means being humbled. It means admitting when one is wrong.

People with absolute power don't like being questions. Being questioned makes it harder to retain that power. For some people, it isn't in their best interest to know better. It means no more excuses. And you cannot wake someone up who is pretending to be sleeping. They're awake and wish they were asleep. Said Navajo proverb can be applied to someone who plays dumb. Said person plays dumb because it allows an excuse.

There are still some things I question. One thing I've questioned is why some people continue to hold on to the Confederate Lost Cause, even after been told the truth. And like you, I start to understand why. Some people don't want to know better.
What W.E.B. Du Bois, Adam Smith, & you have in common is moral courage. Stay strong. You have to do ~ whatever you can't ~ not do.
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Old 07-09-2021, 05:11 AM
 
58,749 posts, read 27,080,924 times
Reputation: 14185
Quote:
Originally Posted by paracord View Post
And many celebrate Lee for his acumen as a general and for the battles he won for the USA even pre confederacy.

We have military establishments known for him. Duhhhhhhhh.

Did you not know that he was a great general? Do you think all he did was lead the Confederate troops in the latter part of his life?

Wow.
The left doesn't care what someone did for MOST of their life, only the things they against.

"In September 1852, Lee became the superintendent of West Point.
During his three years at West Point, Brevet Colonel Robert E. Lee improved the buildings and courses, and spent a lot of time with the cadets. Lee's oldest son, George Washington Custis Lee, attended West Point during his tenure. Custis Lee graduated in 1854, first in his class."

Source: Wikipedia Added by: Brandon samuels

After graduating from West Point, Lee became a member of the U.S. Army and began a long and remarkable military career. He distinguished himself in the Mexican War earning three honorary field promotions. His accomplishments were many including Assistant to the Chief of the Engineer Corps and Superintendent of West Point. In later years he was appointed president of a college in Lexington, Virginia that was later renamed Washington and Lee University in honor of his outstanding years of service."


https://worldhistoryproject.org/1852...-of-west-point,

I have not heard a word about removing ALL the tens of dozens of things in West Virginia named after their KKK leader DEM Senator, Byrd.

Hmmm!

The word "hypocrite" comes to mind.
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Old 07-09-2021, 05:18 AM
 
58,749 posts, read 27,080,924 times
Reputation: 14185
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClaraC View Post
I'm willing to listen.

What other contributions did Lee make, besides being an EXCELLENT general for the traitorous confederacy, that was fighting for the purpose of keeping their slaves in bondage.

He was certainly a great general, that's true, and could dance circles around Grant. He lost the war because the south had very little in the way of supplies for war. Thank God.

Not sure by this post ig you are for or against Lee. One time you praise him, then the next time rip him apart.

"What other contributions did Lee make?"

You must be one of the "high educated" dems we keep hearing abut who went to a dem controlled public school. And WE are called the UN-educated.

Being you think you are so smart, what can't you look it up for yourself?


Read my previous post.
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Old 07-09-2021, 05:26 AM
 
58,749 posts, read 27,080,924 times
Reputation: 14185
Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
I am not in favor of tearing down the statues of GW or TJ. I'm still going to be in favor of tearing down/removing ALL Confederate monuments. Telling me that some people will go after GW or TJ isn't enough to change my stance on Confederate monuments.

By the way, alot of Black people have viewed Confederate monuments negatively for a long time. Many people just didn't care what alot of Blacks had to say.
"By the way, a lot of Black people" also FOUGHT FOR THE SOUTH and OWNED slaves themselves.

In any incident we can find good AND bad.

To bow down to a few does not do justice to the majority.

I keep going back to we fought England to gain our OWN freedom, yet they are one of our best allies today. Should we castigate from them for NOT allowing us to be free of them?

We fought Germany TWICE, yet are now a good ally. Should we NOT be friend for what they did in the past to us?

German's have invented a lot of things, should we not buy them?

The same with Japan. Should we ban all Japanese cars from being sold here? Japan attacked us at Pearl Harbor and we went to war with them.

Now they are another ally

How long are we suppose to hold a grudge?
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Old 07-09-2021, 05:45 AM
 
58,749 posts, read 27,080,924 times
Reputation: 14185
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordSquidworth View Post
He’s not targeting slave owners. He’s targeting traitors to the constitution.

Big difference. Stop being a child.
"He’s targeting traitors to the constitution."

Where in the Constitution does it say, once you FREELY become a state, that you CANNOT change your mind and leave the union?

President Lincoln asked about charges of treason for those who served for the Confederacy and the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court told him it would never hold water in court.

But YOU know more then he did.

"Stop being a child", right back at you.

Do some historical studying BEFORE "opening mouth and inserting foot"!

You are NOT as smart as you think you are!
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