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Maybe the Republicans are. Really depends how stupid they think their base is and how quickly they'll forget that the Trump deadline for full withdrawal was May 1st. Biden extended it out to September 11th. Really dunno, people have very short memories but I'm not sure that short. More likely they're keeping quiet about it because everyone knows what's gong to happen. Taliban will fill the power vacuum. But the alternative is just to occupy the country in perpetuity. It's not like the result would be any different if we occupied it for 30 or 50 years than 20.
Trump was talked out of exiting Syria, he could’ve been talked out of exiting Afghanistan, too. We have no idea what his final decision would’ve been.
So no, whatever happens in Afghanistan, Biden owns it.
If the Taliban overrun Kabul, and force the US to abandon their huge compound there, which is currently being guarded by close to 1000 troops, Biden won’t be able to explain that away by saying, “Trump”.
Anyway, this thread isn’t about all that. The media is straight up lying to you. The Afghans were told. But for whatever reason, the BBC is taking the word of an Afghan general, who is playing damage control by trying to explain why he was not ready to secure the base. “It was the American’s fault”
Trump was talked out of exiting Syria, he could’ve been talked out of exiting Afghanistan, too. We have no idea what his final decision would’ve been.
So no, whatever happens in Afghanistan, Biden owns it.
If the Taliban overrun Kabul, and force the US to abandon their huge compound there, which is currently being guarded by close to 1000 troops, Biden won’t be able to explain that away by saying, “Trump”.
Anyway, this thread isn’t about all that. The media is straight up lying to you. The Afghans were told. But for whatever reason, the BBC is taking the word of an Afghan general, who is playing damage control by trying to explain why he was not ready to secure the base. “It was the American’s fault”
BS.
Incorrect.
Trump negotiated the May 1st full withdrawal with the Taliban. Most you could do is argue that the Taliban didn't honor Trump's agreement and therefore it wasn't binding anymore. That was mostly the Democrats arguing that point, however, and why Biden pushed Trump's May 1st date out to September 11.
And yes, the Afghans were told about the agreement that Trump made with the Taliban... after the fact, but they were told. Writing was on the wall anyway. That's clearly the direction it's been going for many, many years with the US troops taking more of a training and advisory roll and telling the Afghan security forces they have to actually do something if they want it to get done rather than using the US military as their gofer. It's well over a year since they were would we were would be completely gone two months ago. It's a them problem now.
Trump negotiated the May 1st full withdrawal with the Taliban. Most you could do is argue that the Taliban didn't honor Trump's agreement and therefore it wasn't binding anymore. That was mostly the Democrats arguing that point, however, and why Biden pushed Trump's May 1st date out to September 11.
And yes, the Afghans were told about the agreement that Trump made with the Taliban... after the fact, but they were told. Writing was on the wall anyway. That's clearly the direction it's been going for many, many years with the US troops taking more of a training and advisory roll and telling the Afghan security forces they have to actually do something if they want it to get done rather than using the US military as their gofer. It's well over a year since they were would we were would be completely gone two months ago. It's a them problem now.
Just because Trump negotiated a withdrawal with the Taliban doesn’t mean he couldn’t have went back on it and left the US troops in place there. All it would’ve took is to point out any number of Taliban attacks, and state that they didn’t act in good faith, and because of that, we aren’t leaving.
In fact, if I was Trump, I’d start saying right now that things changed on the ground since my decision to withdraw, and I wouldn’t have left it if I was still President. I know his base is anti-Afghanistan deployment, but I think it would be an overall positive for him to paint Biden into a corner on this one, because the situation is 100% about to blow up.
Bottom line: Biden is the one who left. Period. End of discussion. He now owns that entire decision.
I know this goes against the left’s mantra of blaming Trump for everything, and I also know the state run propaganda media will do all they can to blame Trump when the situation devolves over the next few months.
But again, let me just state that the media is lying to you. The Afghans were told specifically, we are leaving Bagram at xxx time.
Good that they left, and very smart not to tell anyone. Many personnel in the Afghan Army cannot be trusted, a very vulnerable time would be the last US personnel leaving the base, best not to announce it to anyone.
This is about the only thing I agree with Trump and Biden about, time to leave that place, stop wasting resources on it.
In any case, they knew we were leaving, it was not a surprise or anything. Maybe they informed them the exact time, maybe not, for security reasons, would see no reason to inform them, but I would bet it was a "we will be gone by xx time", not an exact time, and the Afghans got confused and they thought the "by xx time" was the exact time.
The only explanation is the one owed to the American people as to why we were waging an UnConstitutional War that had nothing to do with protecting our borders and nothing to do with our national security.
Just because Trump negotiated a withdrawal with the Taliban doesn’t mean he couldn’t have went back on it and left the US troops in place there. All it would’ve took is to point out any number of Taliban attacks, and state that they didn’t act in good faith, and because of that, we aren’t leaving.
In fact, if I was Trump, I’d start saying right now that things changed on the ground since my decision to withdraw, and I wouldn’t have left it if I was still President. I know his base is anti-Afghanistan deployment, but I think it would be an overall positive for him to paint Biden into a corner on this one, because the situation is 100% about to blow up.
Bottom line: Biden is the one who left. Period. End of discussion. He now owns that entire decision.
I know this goes against the left’s mantra of blaming Trump for everything, and I also know the state run propaganda media will do all they can to blame Trump when the situation devolves over the next few months.
But again, let me just state that the media is lying to you. The Afghans were told specifically, we are leaving Bagram at xxx time.
But you're not Trump. The only thing Trump was at all critical of was Biden's delaying it from his agreement with the Taliban of May 1st to September 11.
If the Republicans want to do a cheap politicizing of Trump's withdrawal that Biden dragged out, the logical mouthpiece for that is someone like Graham. He's been consistently critical of Trump's full withdrawal plan so it's not like he's being hypocritical about being critical of Trump's full withdrawal plan now that Biden dragged it out a few months. For all the Republicans that lined up in support of Trump's plan that want to now reframe the issue and pretend they're opposed to it because it's something Biden is doing, just remain silent on how much you support the plan and let Graham be critical of it. Alternatively, double down and remind everyone how great an idea the full withdrawal is and that it was all Trump's idea, which is what Trump did. The issue there is most people expect the Taliban to fill the vacuum and we're not exactly buddy buddy with the Taliban. It's kind of awkward doing all that grandstanding and hoorah-ing about the fact that we lost the war in Afghanistan and let the Taliban take the country back... particularly if the Taliban gets bored in their sandbox and goes and blows something up outside of it.
FWIW though, I agree with Trump on that issue. It may not be a great selling point to be soft on terrorism and negotiate defeat with the Taliban... but the alternative is a permanent occupying force. There's not support left for that. Obama kicked the can down to his successor but it's not like <10,000 troops could effectively occupy Afghanistan. Either we needed to permanently station a few hundred thousand troops in the country and occupy it or just let the Taliban have their sandbox back and admit defeat. The Graham plan of let's just leave a few thousand troops there was never going to work. Eventually the Taliban would just attack directly and overwhelm a small force and we'd most likely just get sucked back in in response. Aside from hanging out some soldiers to get killed for no real reason since there's no way such a small force can occupy the country, there's no point to that.
But you're not Trump. The only thing Trump was at all critical of was Biden's delaying it from his agreement with the Taliban of May 1st to September 11.
If the Republicans want to do a cheap politicizing of Trump's withdrawal that Biden dragged out, the logical mouthpiece for that is someone like Graham. He's been consistently critical of Trump's full withdrawal plan so it's not like he's being hypocritical about being critical of Trump's full withdrawal plan now that Biden dragged it out a few months. For all the Republicans that lined up in support of Trump's plan that want to now reframe the issue and pretend they're opposed to it because it's something Biden is doing, just remain silent on how much you support the plan and let Graham be critical of it. Alternatively, double down and remind everyone how great an idea the full withdrawal is and that it was all Trump's idea, which is what Trump did. The issue there is most people expect the Taliban to fill the vacuum and we're not exactly buddy buddy with the Taliban. It's kind of awkward doing all that grandstanding and hoorah-ing about the fact that we lost the war in Afghanistan and let the Taliban take the country back... particularly if the Taliban gets bored in their sandbox and goes and blows something up outside of it.
FWIW though, I agree with Trump on that issue. It may not be a great selling point to be soft on terrorism and negotiate defeat with the Taliban... but the alternative is a permanent occupying force. There's not support left for that. Obama kicked the can down to his successor but it's not like <10,000 troops could effectively occupy Afghanistan. Either we needed to permanently station a few hundred thousand troops in the country and occupy it or just let the Taliban have their sandbox back and admit defeat. The Graham plan of let's just leave a few thousand troops there was never going to work. Eventually the Taliban would just attack directly and overwhelm a small force and we'd most likely just get sucked back in in response. Aside from hanging out some soldiers to get killed for no real reason since there's no way such a small force can occupy the country, there's no point to that.
I think we could’ve indefinitely stationed a small (10k) force in AFG and held the Taliban from taking over the country. This would not have cost very much at all. Where we went wrong was wasting all that money trying to nation build infrastructure projects.
I disagree with the pullout, and I don’t care which side is for or against it. Biden will have a choice soon, either let Kabul fall, or go back in there, just like Obama did in Iraq when the ISIS caliphate almost toppled the country. We are still in Iraq to this day. So if we are in Iraq, and many other countries in the region, why should we not be in AFG too?
We aren’t really nation building in Iraq, and we shouldn’t be doing it in AFG either. But we should be there, because it’s guaranteed the Taliban will allow terrorists to set up camp again. The mouth breathers just can’t help themselves, and if we let our guard down, they will strike on US soil again.
So we didn’t “lose” , we just quit the game. Biden might decide (Biden’s an imbecile, so maybe Blinken will decide) we need to re-enter that game.
It was a losing battle we never should have got in the first place. There isn't any place on the planet worth the lives of our people or our treasure. Let the Russkis or the Chi-Coms have it all.
Presumably done for security reasons. They already knew we are leaving, so it's hardly a complete surprise.
Exactly. Of course. So what does that say, that after 20 years, we haven't even successfully forged trusting relationship with supposed allies, and that we sneak off like cowardly, ashamed criminals?
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