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I want thoughts on this apparent shredding of a friendship of close to 56 years in duration over my Presidential vote in 2020.
I have one close friend (or erstwhile friend), David. I grew up with him in suburban New York, since when he moved in from California in 3rd Grade, in Fall 1965. During our elementary and junior high school years we were reasonably close.There were sleepovers at each others houses. We socialized in school. Then, after 8th grade, when we merged with an overwhelmingly bigger school into the high school, where we lost touch. We reconnected in 10th grade. He was soccer goalie, I was (usually) fullback; lonely posts for a team that kept the ball down the field. We were the first place team that Autumn 1972. After my Dad died that January his family had me over for dinner. Again, after that we largely fell out of contact until our parents joined the same summer club in the 1980s. We had some memorable beach football games and he reconnected me to many of my elementary school acquaintances.
He married in 1989, and I met my wife eight months later. We all became friends.This time we remained friendly after he divorced his first wife and remarried the second wife. My wife and I attended the funerals and Shivas for his parents. The friendship became close enough that he asked me to dine with him the night before his second wife tragically died of cancer in July 2018. He wanted advice as to whether to delay the funeral (against Jewish custom and law) so that his twin twelve year olds could go with their camp in the Berkshires to Cape Cod, and then let them know she had died after. I advised him to do just that, and correctly predicted that his children would want to return to camp after the funeral. I encouraged him to let them. That night over dinner we had some meaningful discussions about religion, parenting, and keeping children informed about bad news.
Recently he began declining my calls, even though he answered my texts, even advising me that two days ago, when I called to wish him a happy birthday, I was two days early, though I had hit his childhood terrier's birthday. Today, on his birthday, he took my call. When I asked him what was going on, he said he didn't feel he could easily, and for now, remain friends with a Trump voter. Mind you, I rarely discuss politics with him since I know his views and know he's not going to convince me and I'm not going to convince him. And otherwise I, like him, am a liberal Democrat.
I expressed my view that Covid and the divisive politics are shredding too many friendships,and that for 64 year olds friendships are hard to come by. I expressed my upset that in 2016 the process was reversed; I lost the best man at my wedding as a friend because I voted for Clinton.
Is this at all common?
Yes, this happens, and I think it is ok. While I have not terminated a friendship over different political views, I certain see how I could. Do what makes you feel right. Be true to yourself. Respecting others right to a point of view does not mean you have to be friends with a differing point of view. Friendships are based on common interests.
I have two friends who have been very close professionally as well a socially since '72. One was sharing his views and the other asked him to stop. Well, he kept going and it turned ugly and now they have really nothing to do with each other professionally and socially. When the guy did finally apologize, his family members butted in and got nasty with the other guy. Now, unless a miracle happens, I don't see them coming together. It really breaks my heart as they are friends and colleagues for decades.
I have not openly shared my views as I was a Trump supporter . I have voted for Republican presidents since Nixon and I have no regrets. There are some on FB that I have "defollowed" because of their mean and untrue posts. Probably there are some that disliked me "liking" a certain post. I don't argue as I feel that is wasting time. I would rather find things that we agree upon or find something that I can support them. I have had a couple of times where friends or workmen wanted to start in bashing Trump and I quickly changed the subject rather than argue with them. I think that is the best procedure.
I personally think this has been brewing since the 2000 election and is now really at a boiling point. I don't see it getting better anytime soon.
I was shocked to hear my younger acquaintances adopting this attitude of dropping friends who didn't agree with them. Who knew?
It is fear, isn't it?
It certainly wasn't my definition of friendship.
I keep silent about my more controversial preferences and support the things with which I agree. And I stay connected.
Isn't the whole idea of persuasion leading by example anyway? How can you do that if you've alienated people? Show them what works. (If anything works anymore. Heh.)
They are young and you have to forgive that they've spent years of their lives being conditioned to think this way. By staying connected I have some hope of helping them see there are other ways besides the party line to view friendships.
The people who i've seen act the most ridiculous are the liberal in terms of who they keep around as friends are the liberal democrats, mainly women, but a few men. I see angry rants from them on a daily basis on social media complaining about political things that really dont have anything to do with them directly. I've seen people say things like, if you voted for this or feel this way then defriend me now. I can see how a friendship could be difficult if someone is very far leaning in one direction...but it seems sad to have a friendship end over most of this stuff. I get it if you're gay and your childhood friends is a homophobic...but that's not really politics, that's just someone being a bad person. If you are anti gun and your friend is not I dont see that as a reason to not be friends unless you're friend is pointing a gun at your or something. If you are anti cop and your brother becomes a cop...does the relationship end?
I mostly care about how someone treats me as a person. I admit I dont want to hear about someone's political views all the time (regardless of what side) and it seems like a lot of folks have trouble keeping quiet.
The difference as I see it: people in general understood reality, and both sides (all sides) essentially agreed on the basics of reality. So one was voting on which candidate promised the best outcome or solution for what were understood to be real and common issues shared by the populace. Yes, that's simplistic but go with it.
Fast-forward to the last decade and in particular the last 5 years.
A lot of people are easily manipulated, gullible, and lack critical thinking. They are ruled by their emotions, and because they are manipulated through a steady diet of targeted social media and layers of multiple types of media tailored to their religious beliefs, deepest fears, biases, they follow along ever more convinced they are fighting "evil from within." These techniques are how Germany in the 1930s embraced a Hitler. He was able to reach the deepest levels of fear inside others to manipulate and weaponize them. Brainwashing.
People said it could never happen in the U.S. I'd say the last few years in particular prove the point it can happen. And with the proliferation of numerous ways to find and communicate with others sharing a certain fear or bias, these folks find others and band together. They think they're getting secret messages telling them to take over, take 'control.' And they are getting these messages--from their micro-segmented media feeding them conspiracy after conspiracy. QAnon, Oath Keepers, Proud Boys, the list goes on and on. Crazy attracts crazy. Jan 6, 2021 proved that.
Yep.
From this side, this is what it looks like.
My father is a Trump supporter. I am trying to maintain a distant but caring relationship with him, and I talk to him on the phone occasionally. And inevitably the conversation goes to politics.
Thing is, I can have a discussion with someone, when we don't agree and have different views. As long as we can both be calm and rational people and hear each other. I'm willing to hear him, but when it reaches a point where I ask him something about policy, to to tell me why he thinks something (when he brought it up but didn't give much substance to a point, only repeated some bit of media buzz at me)... He gets agitated and starts just yelling stuff that doesn't make sense.
Like he'll tell me that he does not like Trump the man, but supported his "policies."
I will say, OK that's fair, in all respect I would like to hear more about what policies of his you support. I want to understand. (Here I am, being calm and willing to hear his side of things.)
He gets immediately agitated and says, in an aggressive tone, "Well I hate socialism, you know, this is going to be a socialist country and we'll all be speaking CHINESE."
OK we have now gone off the rails. Once you bring a bunch of hyperbole in, and just start spouting what the latest outrage porn you've been fed, we have lost the ability to talk like sane adults.
I mean, I'd love to learn Chinese, or any other language, just for the sake of it, but I don't have much faith in my ability to learn it nor anyone's ability to MAKE me learn it. So... And frankly there he is spouting socialism and communism interchangeably and I don't think he even understands what either word actually even means or what the difference is, but what he's really real sure about is that it's bad! And anti American!
I've tried to get him to understand that people on the left and the right are both being played. Every time we see something on Facebook or hear something on talk radio that fills us with fury and fear, we are being convinced that there is another "side" here that is our enemy. That we are not all Americans, and that we should be fighting against each other. Each side sees the other as a threat, and as a greater threat, and as the ones out to wreck and ruin the country. It has become an existential matter, one where we're afraid of actual threats to our very way of life.
So while I agree with your assessment of things more or less, I am very careful to restrain my feelings of animosity towards the right, even if there are some I can't really talk to. Because I'll choose silence over shouting hyperbole and propaganda at each other. The one thing I refuse to be a part of, more than anything, is the escalation of conflict. And sometimes I have been able to reach people I know who are on the right, get them to contemplate that in fact we are all Americans, that there is not as much reason as they think, to be riled up and frothing at the mouth about about the left and that if they are feeling that way, it's because their media of choice is deliberately trying to MAKE them feel that way, but if I'm going to undertake to stand in that position, I must not allow my own side to do it to me, either.
So...tl;dr version of my answer to the question, is that whether I will maintain ties with someone where political differences exist depends a lot on how much I value the relationship, AND whether we can be civil if politics come up in conversation. Anyone who uses their politics as a bludgeon to bully me with, is not my friend. I would not expect anyone to tolerate it from me, either.
My father is a Trump supporter. I am trying to maintain a distant but caring relationship with him, and I talk to him on the phone occasionally. And inevitably the conversation goes to politics.
I've been verbally bullied by 2 supporters of the previous oval-dweller. One time before the 2016 election and one time before the 2020 election.
I don't like politics in general and remain Independent, but I'm not blind, and I do understand nuances.
Just thinking a reality TV host who was running for the publicity, to try and negotiate a better deal with a TV network for their reality show, might be a poor choice for a complicated and crucial job of running the country, working well with others, and governing, brought out rage.
I wouldn't hire someone to a management position who didn't understand all facets of the role, didn't know the company, and had no relevant experience to a corporate job. No one takes issue with that. That's logical. But use the same standard and the same logic for the most important job in the country one can have, and anger and name-calling ensues.
OP, who told your friend whom you voted for? How would he know? Go to the source of the problem, and plug the leak, before you lose any more friends.
This. In the current climate, many people have very strong feelings about politics. I would suggest the best course is to keep your political opinions to yourself and stick to more neutral topics when talking with others.
I've been verbally bullied by 2 supporters of the previous oval-dweller. One time before the 2016 election and one time before the 2020 election.
I don't like politics in general and remain Independent, but I'm not blind, and I do understand nuances.
Just thinking a reality TV host who was running for the publicity, to try and negotiate a better deal with a TV network for their reality show, might be a poor choice for a complicated and crucial job of running the country, working well with others, and governing, brought out rage.
I wouldn't hire someone to a management position who didn't understand all facets of the role, didn't know the company, and had no relevant experience to a corporate job. No one takes issue with that. That's logical. But use the same standard and the same logic for the most important job in the country one can have, and anger and name-calling ensues.
This is the problem I've encountered.
People on the right who have lost friends or family connections keep saying "We had different political opinions and they couldn't handle it" or the like, or frame it like we simply disagree...
If it were only that, I don't think it would be an issue. But I don't see it as much of a friendship if someone shouts at me, calls me names, or treats me with disrespect.
But before anyone says it, I have seen people on the left do that, too. We're not immune.
So what I told my Dad, is that if he doesn't want ME to think the worst of him, then he needs to do me the favor of not assuming the worst of me, and both of us need to do what we can to extend that courtesy to as many of our fellow Americans across the aisle as humanly possible. Now obviously I'm not going to sit smiling and take it if I'm being bullied. I will walk away. But if we can be decent and respectful to each other, then I'm willing to hear what someone I disagree with has to say. And I try to do my part not to be the first to cast a stone.
It's challenging though. I believe that it's challenging on purpose. I actually believe that the real enemies of this country don't actually back the left or the right at all. They back chaos. Their only purpose is to foment conflict among us. They cannot take on the US in an honest fight, so they are using devious means like psyops and cyber attacks to try and do it. So when we give in to outrage and see the other political side here as our "enemy" we are doing EXACTLY what countries that want to see us broken, want us to do. So my personal main objective, is how NOT to play that game, at the human to human, citizen to citizen level.
I might believe that Trump was an agent of, say, Russia in this, but it doesn't matter. He is one guy. No matter what happens with him, what is enduring are these divisions in our society that have been growing for a long time and are not going away. We need to stop being enemies to one another.
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