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Old 07-08-2021, 07:52 PM
 
3,732 posts, read 1,427,140 times
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The real cause of ending slavery was the 2nd great awakening which pushed abolitionist in both UK and united states to end slavery by mainline protestant religious groups.
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Old 07-08-2021, 08:02 PM
 
26,346 posts, read 14,952,283 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
Now you just wanna be insulting, but when I do it, you’ll go report it.

Just nevermind dude. Don’t even bother responding to me anymore. I sit here and concede your point about capitalism, and you still can’t help yourself. You just HAVE to talk out the side of your neck.
You were "LMAO" and "SMH" when I responded to the term you used, thinking you used it correctly. That wasn't snooty? Just explaining to you that you used an actual term with the opposite definition.

Sorry I didn't mean to upset you.

P.S. I've never reported you for anything. Perhaps it was someone else who hurt you in that way.
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Old 07-08-2021, 08:06 PM
 
26,346 posts, read 14,952,283 times
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Originally Posted by Checkmarkblue View Post
The real cause of ending slavery was the 2nd great awakening which pushed abolitionist in both UK and united states to end slavery by mainline protestant religious groups.
That is a fair point, but keep in mind that many states outlawed slavery well before the 2nd Great Awakening and slavery exists today in places on earth.

I think it would be more accurate to say that the Second Great Awakening made abolitionists more mainstream in the North and UK.
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Old 07-08-2021, 08:11 PM
Status: "Apparently the worst poster on CD" (set 9 hours ago)
 
27,537 posts, read 16,018,410 times
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The importation/atlantic slave trade was outlawed in 1807 and our first navy, Old ironsides was fighting it along the barbary coast.
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Old 07-08-2021, 08:32 PM
 
3,732 posts, read 1,427,140 times
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Originally Posted by michiganmoon View Post
That is a fair point, but keep in mind that many states outlawed slavery well before the 2nd Great Awakening and slavery exists today in places on earth.

I think it would be more accurate to say that the Second Great Awakening made abolitionists more mainstream in the North and UK.
That is true. The 2nd great awakening is instrumental in ending African or black slavery in the Anglosphere. But many of the abolitionist in the mainline white protestants were bat sh&t crazy. Look at John brown for example. He wanted to end slavery and help out black people. But the first person he killed in harpers ferry was a black man who worked on rail line.
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Old 07-08-2021, 08:37 PM
 
Location: Houston
26,979 posts, read 15,849,164 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Checkmarkblue View Post
That is true. The 2nd great awakening is instrumental in ending African or black slavery in the Anglosphere. But many of the abolitionist in the mainline white protestants were bat sh&t crazy. Look at John brown for example. He wanted to end slavery and help out black people. But the first person he killed in harpers ferry was a black man who worked on rail line.
There were a lot of crazy people on both sides during the Missouri-Kansas wars.
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Old 07-09-2021, 12:13 AM
 
56,989 posts, read 35,116,741 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michiganmoon View Post
You were "LMAO" and "SMH" when I responded to the term you used, thinking you used it correctly. That wasn't snooty? Just explaining to you that you used an actual term with the opposite definition.

Sorry I didn't mean to upset you.

P.S. I've never reported you for anything. Perhaps it was someone else who hurt you in that way.
Didn’t say you ever reported me before since I don’t recognize you from any other thread. I’m just talking about in this thread.

We’ll just avoid each other’s posts and keep it moving. That’s easy enough.
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Old 07-09-2021, 02:57 AM
 
26,346 posts, read 14,952,283 times
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Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
Didn’t say you ever reported me before since I don’t recognize you from any other thread. I’m just talking about in this thread.

We’ll just avoid each other’s posts and keep it moving. That’s easy enough.
You are an extremely difficult person to talk to.

You were adamant that Adam Smith never commented on slave labor in his book Wealth of Nations that you claimed to read, which is wildly false.

When I proved it false you then you responded using the term "free labor" with the exact opposite definition.

When I point out the real definition you respond snarky and comment about how I would report you, even though you claim to not know me from other threads - victim complex? If you claim to not know me, then how do you know what I would and wouldn't report you for? Also, we've discussed on here many times over the years and you claim to not know me from any other threads.

Borderline absurd, unless you are getting old.
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Old 07-09-2021, 04:44 AM
 
302 posts, read 127,340 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by godofthunder9010 View Post
It is only proper to give the British their due credit for getting the ball rolling on abolishing slavery. The United States was a nothing colony in a backwater corner of the planet that nobody much cared about. Great Britain was big, powerful and led the way.

But there's a pretty obvious flaw in your point:
  • The Society for Effecting the Abolition of the Slave Trade was founded in 1787.
  • The Republic of Vermont actually abolished slavery at its founding in 1777, encoding the prohibition against slavery into it's Constitution.
  • 1777 is 10 years earlier than 1787.
  • Conclusion: Vermont actually did the abolishing of slavery 10 years before the British got serious about just discussing the idea of abolition.
So yeah, Vermont is still the starting place for the abolition movement. Nothing I'm finding predates it. Granted there were all manner of moves throughout history to end slavery, but it was never particularly effective and humanity always ended up continuing the practice.

Edit: You'll find that there was a lot of discussion about abolition in the American Colonies well before the Revolutionary War. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeli...ry_and_serfdom
In 1706 Lord Chief Justice of England, ruled that "as soon as a Negro comes into England, he becomes free. One may be a villein in England, but not a slave." That is 70 years before Vermont abolished slavery.

Also, in 1772, five years before slavery was abolished in Vermont was the Somersett case, ruling that as soon as a slave lands on English soil he is free and can not be compelled to leave.

Portugal had also abolished slavery on home soil at that time, as had a number of other European countries (and slavery was abolished in Japan as early as 1590 - I don't know about every other country around the world, but my guess is neither do most of the posters on this thread). Vermont was definitely not the first place to ban slavery.
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Old 07-09-2021, 06:44 AM
 
Location: Midwest City, Oklahoma
14,856 posts, read 8,179,887 times
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Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest View Post
Sophistry is not helpful. Not then, not now.
In any case, I'm just a Machiavellian whose focus is entirely on government, not individuals. My position is that the governments of the world are in a perpetual Darwinian struggle for survival. And to survive they need money, resources, power, powerful alliances, whatever. The ability to defend yourself and to spread your influence(IE your power). Which is often called "hegemony".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hegemony

People want to assert moral reasonings to the actions of governments. I take a more cynical view and ask, how do they benefit? How does it serve their national interests? What is a national interest?

I think individuals are useless, and the vast majority of individuals have effectively no say whatsoever, regardless of if they can vote. Plus there are economic and political forces which "manufacture consent"(or in some cases ignore it outright), because the state does not exist to do nice things for its people, it exists to become rich and powerful.

If a government seems to be doing nice things(e.g. welfare programs), these programs must exist for secondary economic or political reasons, not because "the people" want them. Which is why undemocratic, authoritarian, monarchical, and totalitarian countries often have the most expansive welfare programs.

So what is America really? What was the American Revolution? Why was slavery abolished? And why were women emancipated? All of them have exactly the same cause, capitalism.

Let me first say that I hate capitalism with a fiery passion, but it is nonetheless true. Women's emancipation "freed" women so they could go to work, increase consumption, and to grow the economy. I'm not trying to diminish "the struggle", but if women's emancipation was bad for the economy, it wouldn't have happened.

So why then were women not always emancipated? To put it in terms you'll appreciate, it was because women were baby factories. Plus there is no comparing a "stay at home mom" of today to one 500 years ago. In the past women had actual work to do, and everything was done by hand and from scratch. Washing laundry was work that might take hours per day. Same with dishes and cooking. Hell, imagine cooking three full meals every day for a large family from raw ingredients. Imagine kneading all that bread. This was on top of things like churning butter, making cheese, tending a garden/livestock, knitting/sewing/weaving clothes, and of course taking care of large numbers of children.

My friend tells me how he doesn't want his girlfriend working. But these days all that means is sitting at home watching talk shows, spending money, and getting fat.

Women who work outside the home tend to have far fewer, if any children compared to women who don't work. In the past, women staying at home was key to the stability, growth, and continuation of society. Now it is a waste of manpower(womanpower?), which reduces consumption, and slows economic growth and the appreciation of assets.

So if you love America, go to work, make money, and buy stuff. As George Bush said, it is your patriotic duty to consume. Which is why those who love America the most, have the biggest houses, the biggest trucks, and the biggest bellies.

Let me add, those who love America should also be in favor of vastly expanding immigration, and should not be racist or bigoted in any way. Tolerance and consumption are the only two American virtues. They are why America is a superpower, and the only way we will continue to be into the future.

Last edited by Redshadowz; 07-09-2021 at 07:03 AM..
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