Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Large randomized, controlled prospective trials were done. The same trials always required for vaccines. The amount of money available made it possible to do it faster. Also, the companies made the vaccines before the trials were completed, without waiting on the emergency use authorization. That was a big financial gamble. If the vaccines did not work they would have been trashed.
In addition, there are now tons of data on people who have been vaccinated outside the trials. Pfizer and Moderna have applied for full licensure, and getting it is a virtual certainty, probably very soon.
Analysis of excess deaths confirms the reported deaths are truly from the virus. Note this is deaths on a weekly basis compared to what would be expected for that week in previous years.
Only short term trials were done. Do you think people are dumb? These vaccines have not undergone anywhere near the testing they usually receive before being released to the public. This may or may not have been the right approach in this case, but don't pretend like these have had the same rigor of testing as is usual.
I bet it will be a couple years or more before they get full approval. If the FDA is doing their job it should be.
Ahhhh....so you're not going to touch this with a ten-foot pole. Because to do so would require admission that these experimental vaccines bring with them considerable, up to and including lethal, risk....or denying it and looking very foolish.
The long-term affects are still completely unknown. Conjecture - and that's all we have for now - ranges from none to the possibility that every single person who has been vaccinated will be dead in two to three years from complications.
https://articles.mercola.com/sites/a...-injuries.aspx
I'm not saying that I accept these kinds of statements as truth. I simply don't know....no one does. What I'm stating as fact is that there is far more risk than what the general public is being led to believe.
The atmosphere created by government vax zealotry is coercion. And I term the deaths that will result from it as executions. Because those deaths would not occur but for government coercion. I have a LOT more trouble philosophically with a death by government coercion than I do with a random death from disease. The latter is life....that we have known and lived with since life began. The former is evil....that we have not seen in this country, at least not in the modern era we know.
Bang-on. But you're arguing with people whose egos make everything seem like a trolley problem to them. The thought process is, people will die either way in this situation, but if I join this tribe and not that one, if I adopt this set of behaviors on not that one, if I support this set of policies and not that one, then fewer people will die and I will be deemed virtuous because I chose the right side of history.
That is not a useless thought process; it is particularly effective in true emergencies. Where it's misapplied and perverted here is in two major ways: 1) the offramp, exit strategy, end game, whatever you want to call it, from the emergency, is unclear, and it seems like this might be on purpose; there seem to be forces that want to create a permanent state of emergency, and 2) the data is constantly fudged and shaped to fit one narrative and suppress another -- if everything is going to be a trolley problem, you better damn well have accurate data. Otherwise, your privilege/responsibility of pulling the switch on the trolley should be stripped, and it should all be left to free will and fate. And sometimes when we leave it up to free will and fate, and stop obsessively trying to create a trolley problem out of it, we end up finding out that we've reached the most just solution, and we never needed the self-appointed "switch pullers" to weigh in at all.
The anti-vaxxers have simply bought into this huge conspiracy theory that everyone in the government and the health care profession are plotting to kill them. Like all such conspiracy theory believers, they find a small factoid, and build a grand, complex, irrational explanation. The psychology of folks who believe in conspiracy theories shows them to be, generally but not always, having few close relationships and below average intelligence. The Dunning-Kruger effect partially explains this. This is also consistent with current studies (USC did one in February) that show people with college educations are much more likely to be vaxxed (or plan to be) than folks without a college education.
I know many of you will find this offensive, but some times the truth hurts. I know this from personal experience since, after all, I'm still a Cleveland Browns fan.
Only short term trials were done. Do you think people are dumb? These vaccines have not undergone anywhere near the testing they usually receive before being released to the public. This may or may not have been the right approach in this case, but don't pretend like these have had the same rigor of testing as is usual.
I bet it will be a couple years or more before they get full approval. If the FDA is doing their job it should be.
That is what people on my towns FB page are saying. I personally am not getting the vaccine yet because I had Covid in Nov and as of March had antibodies. Knowing people who had a bad reaction to the vaccine (people who did and didn’t have Covid) I’m not ready to get it yet. I also have allergies to shellfish and eggs and was told I couldn’t get the flu vaccine. Which I don’t. So I am not going to get this one yet. Not sure if or when I will. So that makes me a thoughtless, selfish person? If you are vaccinated why does it matter if I’m not?
Personal choice to get vaccinated, and also personal choice to disclose if you did or not. As you point out, there are some valid reasons not to in addition to personal choice.
My wife chose not to, and I respect her decision. I got mine as soon as I could, and she supports mine.
Couple things I DO THINK are thoughtless or selfish:
If you choose not to get it, don't lie about it. You don't have to volunteer any info, but I believe it's not cool to go to places that only allow vaxxed people, if you are not. As that then affects others, who assume everyone is being honest.
Don't complain about places that won't allow unvaxed people to enter. They have that right too.
I am basically saying, I have no problem with it, but "own your choice".
Regarding #1, I think that's the biggest one. Lying about it, or going to places that clearly state "wear a mask if you are not vaxxed" or anything similar, and not complying is, IMO, selfish. Other people go there assuming honesty. I have (for example) a friend who just had major Chemo, and ALL OF HIS childhood vaccinations were basically voided by the process. If he goes out, he's very vulnerable. For him, it has nothing to do with COVID, unless someone lies about it. That could be lethal to him.
Otherwise, like I say, your body, your choice. I PERSONALLY think the best thing is for as many people to get vaccinated as possible. I realize (and respect) that not everyone agrees, and even realize that time might prove me wrong. For now, it seems to me like the best path, so I'm following it.
The anti-vaxxers have simply bought into this huge conspiracy theory that everyone in the government and the health care profession are plotting to kill them. Like all such conspiracy theory believers, they find a small factoid, and build a grand, complex, irrational explanation. The psychology of folks who believe in conspiracy theories shows them to be, generally but not always, having few close relationships and below average intelligence. The Dunning-Kruger effect partially explains this. This is also consistent with current studies (USC did one in February) that show people with college educations are much more likely to be vaxxed (or plan to be) than folks without a college education.
I know many of you will find this offensive, but some times the truth hurts. I know this from personal experience since, after all, I'm still a Cleveland Browns fan.
How nice of you to segment all people who are waiting or don't want the vaccine into your nice little bucket of being less intelligent. Yes master, please tell me what to think, as I can't do it for myself. Whatever . Meanwhile, you willingly go along with whatever master you have chosen.
You do realize there are actually medical professionals who have decided not to get the vaccine yet? There are actually legitimate reasons not to do so. At the same time I understand the reasons for those who have. This topic is not as cut and dry as you are making it out to be. Both sides have legitimate reasons for their behavior.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
. Meanwhile, you willingly go along with whatever master you have chosen. 