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Old 07-26-2021, 11:45 AM
 
Location: Southeast US
8,609 posts, read 2,308,762 times
Reputation: 2114

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Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57 View Post
...
The reason Floyd's death resonated, was that his life reflected the ups and downs many black men go through, and his death reflected one of their greatest collective fears. He didn't die because he was black, but he died in such a way that reflects the worst of the black experience in America. An experience that a lot of Americans deny is real and thus never try to fix. Because why fix something that's not broken.
I get it. It's why "Black lives matter", because the vast majority of people in this country do value Blacks equal to themselves as a group. When we hear Black parents who are doing a good job by all accounts of raising their kids, and feel compelled to instill a set of extra-cautious behaviors around the cops - I think that resonates. When I heard that Tim Scott was stopped multiple times for DWB, that resonates.

At the same time, some of that fear comes from misinformation. It is not true that "cops are hunting Black men" or that cops kill innocent Black men in huge numbers.



Quote:
To circle this back, the denial of racism, is why CRT was invented. It was invented as a class at Harvard Law because the one black law professor at the time kept encountering students who denied racism was a thing, or they thought it maybe had once been a thing, but was legislated out of existence after MLK gave a speech.
Systemic racism - laws and practices by the government and by businesses - DID end though. Other than crack laws - which weren't racist but affected the Black community worse (the crack and the sentencing) I'd welcome input on anything that remains today that is "systemically racist".

Given human nature, it is essentially impossible to EVER rid the human race of racism though. No one denies racism exists. They deny that THEY are racist, and they deny that systemic racism still exists.

Quote:
CRT is actually not that dissimilar of an argument the 19th century abolitionists made. William Lloyd Garrison said the same kind of thing - that the U.S. was fundamentally flawed, that its pretenses of freedom and liberty etc... were a sham, that its laws were stained with the blood and grime of slavery, and that it needed a whole reset. He called for a whole new constitution.

You see, I can't teach American History without touching CRT. Unless you want to cut the abolitionists out.
And perhaps that is the great disconnect. Teaching how laws and practices were racist and detrimental to Blacks is history. I haven't seen a soul say "don't teach about slavery". What is opposed is the notion that today, all white people enjoy advantages because of their color, and unless they repent, they contribute to the evil of racism.
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Old 07-26-2021, 11:51 AM
 
Location: Southeast US
8,609 posts, read 2,308,762 times
Reputation: 2114
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8won6 View Post
the part about "one race superior to another" is that bullcrap right-wing spin on what the actual issue is. LOL. It's like saying that teaching about the holocaust teaches jews to think nazis are superior...BULLCRAP. Does teaching about 9/11 make new yorkers think muslims are superior?

And let me say this really clear. There are no teachers that teach that one race is superior to another. This is a gigantic strawman thing added to the issue of white-washing history. What many of you are trying to do is say that teaching about slavery 'makes blacks feel inferior'...this is bullcrap. it's a made up argument.

and here's a link to the bill i found in 5 seconds.
https://legiscan.com/OK/text/HB1775/...5-Enrolled.pdf
can you find one person in any of the threads that says the bolded?
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Old 07-26-2021, 02:27 PM
 
3,538 posts, read 1,327,950 times
Reputation: 1462
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyebee Teepee View Post
can you find one person in any of the threads that says the bolded?
you said it yourself.

Quote:
Should we teach that one race or sex is superior?
now your going to back away from this, right? why don't you go ahead and kill off that made up talking point. Teaching american history as it relates to race/racism does not teach that whites are superior. It's about telling what happened and what led to the current conditions.

I know you will play obtuse here, but you and I both know this is what you were saying.
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Old 07-26-2021, 04:09 PM
 
11,186 posts, read 6,507,037 times
Reputation: 4622
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8won6 View Post
the part about "one race superior to another" is that bullcrap right-wing spin on what the actual issue is. LOL. It's like saying that teaching about the holocaust teaches jews to think nazis are superior...BULLCRAP. Does teaching about 9/11 make new yorkers think muslims are superior?

And let me say this really clear. There are no teachers that teach that one race is superior to another. This is a gigantic strawman thing added to the issue of white-washing history. What many of you are trying to do is say that teaching about slavery 'makes blacks feel inferior'...this is bullcrap. it's a made up argument.

and here's a link to the bill i found in 5 seconds.
https://legiscan.com/OK/text/HB1775/...5-Enrolled.pdf
Distortion upon distortion.

The law specifically states it doesn't prohibit the teaching of concepts that align to the Oklahoma Academic Standards. Those standards are loaded with slavery. There's nothing in concepts A-G that prevent teaching about slavery or promote whitewashing history. One of the standards even includes analyzing the Emancipation Proclamation, including its role in expanding the goals of the war and its impact on slavery, and identifying the significance of Juneteenth in relationship to emancipation.

Only you know why you're so intent on mischaracterizing these laws.
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Old 07-26-2021, 08:39 PM
 
Location: Oregon, formerly Texas
10,065 posts, read 7,239,454 times
Reputation: 17146
Quote:
Originally Posted by momonkey View Post
It's also filled with white males fighting to liberate others, including non-whites.

Any chance that will get mentioned in CRT?
They're called allies, and yes. There were many white allies and they get mentioned. The thing is, the allies usually lost their political battles more often than not, and were usually in the minority in terms of who held power. CRT is one way to interrogate why.
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Old 07-26-2021, 10:24 PM
 
Location: North Pacific
15,754 posts, read 7,594,663 times
Reputation: 2576
Quote:
Originally Posted by momonkey View Post
It's also filled with white males fighting to liberate others, including non-whites.

Any chance that will get mentioned in CRT?
Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57 View Post
They're called allies, and yes. There were many white allies and they get mentioned. The thing is, the allies usually lost their political battles more often than not, and were usually in the minority in terms of who held power. CRT is one way to interrogate why.
imo, the allies didn't loose their political battles --- law's were changed. To step up and be counted does not need to be a part of the process, political or otherwise. It's a lesson in humility, some people do not need to be taught.

Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57 View Post
CRT is one way to interrogate why.
And it will be:
13 important points in the campus & K-12 ‘critical race theory’ debate

13. There are going to be lots of lawsuits.

"I can say with great confidence we are going to see a lot of lawsuits coming out of K-12 curriculum in the next several years. CRT opponents may sue to enforce some of these laws over defiant individual schools, school boards, and teachers, and may sue on behalf of individual students and their families claiming violations of free speech rights and the right to be free from compelled speech and other violations of the right to private conscience. Supporters will sue to assert the independence of school boards, individual schools, and teachers’ unions, and even potentially in the name of the free speech rights of students. Doubtlessly, individual parents who probably didn’t think of themselves as on either side of this issue will sue if they believe their children have been mistreated, discriminated against, or if the school has created a hostile environment." (my bold for emphasis)


Seems to me the schools that have been sued over 'prayers', need a reminder in what happens when they tick off, parents. imo, if they keep this up, CRT will be that reminder.
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Old 07-26-2021, 10:46 PM
 
9,897 posts, read 3,429,738 times
Reputation: 7737
Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57 View Post
Please post the direct source of that. I have never seen any discussion of race say that people are born racist, ever. Only in right wing media do I hear that.


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Old 07-27-2021, 12:02 AM
 
Location: North Pacific
15,754 posts, read 7,594,663 times
Reputation: 2576
Newsweek
Even Babies Discriminate: A NurtureShock Excerpt.

"And when the children were reading a book on Martin Luther King Jr. and the civil-rights movement, both a black and a white child noticed that white people were nowhere to be found in the story. Troubled, they decided to find out just where in history both peoples were."
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Old 07-27-2021, 09:55 AM
 
Location: Oregon, formerly Texas
10,065 posts, read 7,239,454 times
Reputation: 17146
That article talked about how children as young as 6 months absorb their parents attidudes on race and reflect that in various testing. But it was more observable when they were older.
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Old 07-27-2021, 09:58 AM
 
Location: Oregon, formerly Texas
10,065 posts, read 7,239,454 times
Reputation: 17146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellis Bell View Post
imo, the allies didn't loose their political battles --- law's were changed. To step up and be counted does not need to be a part of the process, political or otherwise. It's a lesson in humility, some people do not need to be taught.


And it will be:
13 important points in the campus & K-12 ‘critical race theory’ debate

13. There are going to be lots of lawsuits.

"I can say with great confidence we are going to see a lot of lawsuits coming out of K-12 curriculum in the next several years. CRT opponents may sue to enforce some of these laws over defiant individual schools, school boards, and teachers, and may sue on behalf of individual students and their families claiming violations of free speech rights and the right to be free from compelled speech and other violations of the right to private conscience. Supporters will sue to assert the independence of school boards, individual schools, and teachers’ unions, and even potentially in the name of the free speech rights of students. Doubtlessly, individual parents who probably didn’t think of themselves as on either side of this issue will sue if they believe their children have been mistreated, discriminated against, or if the school has created a hostile environment." (my bold for emphasis)


Seems to me the schools that have been sued over 'prayers', need a reminder in what happens when they tick off, parents. imo, if they keep this up, CRT will be that reminder.
Good. I welcome the courts getting involved. If I were a teaxjer in one of the bam states I'd teach about race every day on the hope the cops arrest me or somebody sues me.
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