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I surprised a friend awhile back when he was losing his mind because the ICU beds were at capacity during a Covid surge (clearly that's happening again now). After he got done screaming "the sky is falling", I simply asked him why that was such a surprise to him. I pointed out that we have roughly 3 beds for every 10,000 people nationally and very little has been done to increase that capacity. Hospitals of course are run like businesses, so they have little interest in increasing this capacity. And despite still being in a pandemic, it appears the government has little interest also (it would seem if they did, something would have been done over the last year). And no, the makeshift rooms are quite ridiculous to think that is some replacement. They are not and most hospitals are probably barely above 30% capacity at this point.
But it does make for quite a story every time we get at/or near capacity. Don't ICU units normally run at about 80% capacity?
Hospitals don't add ICU beds as an increased reserve, those beds add to their overhead. and added cost. Also Covid patients need to be isolated from those recovering from critical surgery where possible. There is no such thing as "normal capacity" and the government has shown "interest" over the past year administering the vaccine.
Yes ICU beds filling up yet again with people that choose not to get vaccinated is a rather large story in the states that are surging. We would be moving away from this if people would just do the right thing. But no, now we need to add more ICU beds because people choose not to get the vaccine, that's the solution?
Quote:
ABC News contacted 50 hospitals in 17 states, and asked them to share data on their ICU wards' current COVID-19 patients, including their vaccination status. In the surveyed hospitals, ABC News found that the overwhelming majority of COVID-19 patients currently being treated in ICUs were unvaccinated.
Of the 271 total COVID patients in the surveyed ICUs, 255 patients, or approximately 94%, were unvaccinated against COVID-19 in ABC News' snapshot in time.
Hospitals don't add ICU beds as an increased reserve, those beds add to their overhead. and added cost. Also Covid patients need to be isolated from those recovering from critical surgery where possible. There is no such thing as "normal capacity" and the government has shown "interest" over the past year administering the vaccine.
So glad to see that you agree that hospitals are more about running a business first. And yes, there is such a thing as normal capacity since as you agreed, this is a business.
The government has done little if anything to increase capacity. And it's been 1 1/2 years now so no one can tell me they couldn't have built more hospitals. Billions of dollars have been given out in different forms of aid. And as a country, we don't have the money to build more knowing full well a 2nd wave was predicted by this fall. Absolutely absurd and it shows the focus is not on providing care. China has built many and I read a story that they had one completed in 6 days!
Your link does nothing to strengthen your argument. In fact, it detracts from it.
I surprised a friend awhile back when he was losing his mind because the ICU beds were at capacity during a Covid surge (clearly that's happening again now). After he got done screaming "the sky is falling", I simply asked him why that was such a surprise to him. I pointed out that we have roughly 3 beds for every 10,000 people nationally and very little has been done to increase that capacity. Hospitals of course are run like businesses, so they have little interest in increasing this capacity. And despite still being in a pandemic, it appears the government has little interest also (it would seem if they did, something would have been done over the last year). And no, the makeshift rooms are quite ridiculous to think that is some replacement. They are not and most hospitals are probably barely above 30% capacity at this point.
But it does make for quite a story every time we get at/or near capacity. Don't ICU units normally run at about 80% capacity?
You can build all the extra ICU beds you want but you have to be able to staff them. As you said "hospitals are a business" and staffing is their main expense. So they tend to understaff during normal times. COVID loads really make things difficult in so many ways.
I realize people like you don't care about that. But that's a good part of the problem in the first place.
You can build all the extra ICU beds you want but you have to be able to staff them. As you said "hospitals are a business" and staffing is their main expense. So they tend to understaff during normal times. COVID loads really make things difficult in so many ways.
I realize people like you don't care about that. But that's a good part of the problem in the first place.
Oh my, right to the personal attack. I suspect in 1 1/2 years, the medical industry could have worked on that and our government could have subsidized that training especially since they had no idea on the effectiveness of the vaccines and knowing that boosters were predicted since they came out.
"I realize people like you don't care about that". Perhaps at some point the U.S. (and the CDC) could actually be proactive in solving a problem and not always be following Israel, the WHO, and China.
Hospitals don't add ICU beds as an increased reserve, those beds add to their overhead. and added cost. Also Covid patients need to be isolated from those recovering from critical surgery where possible. There is no such thing as "normal capacity" and the government has shown "interest" over the past year administering the vaccine.
Yes ICU beds filling up yet again with people that choose not to get vaccinated is a rather large story in the states that are surging. We would be moving away from this if people would just do the right thing. But no, now we need to add more ICU beds because people choose not to get the vaccine, that's the solution?
They were filling up with obese people before the vaccines, and yet we didn't have a campaign blaming the obese for filling up the hospitals. We built tent hospitals, got a hospital ship in NY, and converted the Javits center for them. Because it is morally repugnant to not care for sick people, regardless of why they are sick. Now somehow it's okay to blame sick people for taking up hospital space.
Meanwhile, in my county they have fully disassembled the tent hospitals that cost 15 million to build. I hope they don't complain about not having enough beds if we get another surge. Or about having a shortage of health care workers, when they fire those who don't want the shots.
So glad to see that you agree that hospitals are more about running a business first. And yes, there is such a thing as normal capacity since as you agreed, this is a business.
The government has done little if anything to increase capacity. And it's been 1 1/2 years now so no one can tell me they couldn't have built more hospitals. Billions of dollars have been given out in different forms of aid. And as a country, we don't have the money to build more knowing full well a 2nd wave was predicted by this fall. Absolutely absurd and it shows the focus is not on providing care. China has built many and I read a story that they had one completed in 6 days!
Your link does nothing to strengthen your argument. In fact, it detracts from it.
The fact that hospitals are a business isn't much of a revelation. So you want to build more hospitals and add more ICU's beds strictly because people refuse to get the vaccine, sure it's cheaper to build a hospital than to get a free vaccine shot.
Vaccines prevent people from ending up in ICU beds, my link supports that point.
I surprised a friend awhile back when he was losing his mind because the ICU beds were at capacity during a Covid surge (clearly that's happening again now). After he got done screaming "the sky is falling", I simply asked him why that was such a surprise to him. I pointed out that we have roughly 3 beds for every 10,000 people nationally and very little has been done to increase that capacity. Hospitals of course are run like businesses, so they have little interest in increasing this capacity. And despite still being in a pandemic, it appears the government has little interest also (it would seem if they did, something would have been done over the last year). And no, the makeshift rooms are quite ridiculous to think that is some replacement. They are not and most hospitals are probably barely above 30% capacity at this point.
But it does make for quite a story every time we get at/or near capacity. Don't ICU units normally run at about 80% capacity?
Because as of the roughly 1980s. health care was run by "efficient managers". Read - folks, that cut corners anywhere they can and switch from proper to adequate.
As the result, as example, INFECTIOUS DISEASE hospitals, that are properly built with sealed rooms and proper air ventilation were simply shut down and dismantled as, they were sitting dormant, waiting for SHTF situations. Managers got their bonus off money they saved, countries - as it was done worldwide - were left without proper institutions for cases like now. MOF, highly trained and experienced infectious disease specialists and epidemiologists had to re specialize due to "no demand". And epidemiologists are very particular bread of doctors.
As the result, you have regular ICUs(like one, my wife works in) RIGGED into infectious disease wards. My first question to her, when they did this to her unit about a year ago, was - did they rebuild your rooms ventilation to ensure no internal and external infection spread? No. They simply taped doors and put fans in. I hope, most of you know that hospitals and SNFs became the highest risk to catch the virus. Wonder, why.
SO here you have it. And now, what was before built and manned for dozens of years, simply can't be turned on a dime and appear out of thin air.
And who cares. We'll just lockdown everyone, kill economy finally and write off government debt because of the COVID hardship.
SHOW ME ICU like this:
Outdoor air and recirculated air pass through air cleaners (e.g., filter banks) designed to reduce the concentration of airborne contaminants. Air is conditioned for temperature and humidity before it enters the occupied space as supply air. Infiltration is air leakage inward through cracks and interstitial spaces of walls, floors, and ceilings. Exfiltration is air leakage outward through these same cracks and spaces. Return air is largely exhausted from the system, but a portion is recirculated with fresh, incoming air. * Used with permission of the publisher of reference 214 (ASHRAE)
Engineering controls to contain or prevent the spread of airborne contaminants center on
local exhaust ventilation [i.e., source control],
general ventilation, and
air cleaning.4
General ventilation encompasses
dilution and removal of contaminants via well-mixed air distribution of filtered air,
directing contaminants toward exhaust registers and grilles via uniform, non-mixed airflow patterns,
pressurization of individual spaces relative to all other spaces, and
pressurization of buildings relative to the outdoors and other attached buildings.( you do realize, how much it will cost and how long will it take, to remodel a regular hospital HVAC to standard?)
A centralized HVAC system operates as follows. Outdoor air enters the system, where low-efficiency or “roughing” filters remove large particulate matter and many microorganisms. The air enters the distribution system for conditioning to appropriate temperature and humidity levels, passes through an additional bank of filters for further cleaning, and is delivered to each zone of the building. After the conditioned air is distributed to the designated space, it is withdrawn through a return duct system and delivered back to the HVAC unit. A portion of this “return air” is exhausted to the outside while the remainder is mixed with outdoor air for dilution and filtered for removal of contaminants. 215 Air from toilet rooms or other soiled areas is usually exhausted directly to the atmosphere through a separate duct exhaust system. Air from rooms housing tuberculosis patients is exhausted to the outside if possible, or passed through a HEPA filter before recirculation. Ultraviolet germicidal irradiation (UVGI) can be used as an adjunct air-cleaning measure, but it cannot replace HEPA filtration. 15 Top of Page b. Filtration
i. Filter Types and Methods of Filtration
Filtration, the physical removal of particulates from air, is the first step in achieving acceptable indoor air quality. Filtration is the primary means of cleaning the air. Five methods of filtration can be used (Table 5). During filtration, outdoor air passes through two filter beds or banks (with efficiencies of 20%–40% and ≥90%, respectively) for effective removal of particles 1–5 μm in diameter.35, 120 The low-to-medium efficiency filters in the first bank have low resistance to airflow, but this feature allows some small particulates to pass onto heating and air conditioning coils and into the indoor environment.35 Incoming air is mixed with recirculated air and reconditioned for temperature and humidity before being filtered by the second bank of filters. The performance of filters with ≤90% efficiency is measured using either the dust-spot test or the weight-arrestance test.35, 216
The fact that hospitals are a business isn't much of a revelation. So you want to build more hospitals and add more ICU's beds strictly because people refuse to get the vaccine, sure it's cheaper to build a hospital than to get a free vaccine shot.
Vaccines prevent people from ending up in ICU beds, my link supports that point.
See post #6 so I don't have to waste my time with someone that doesn't understand that there is insufficient capacity for ICUs (and yes, there are normal capacities that the hospital is aware of for planning), that the vaccine is waning so vaccinated people will pass the virus on regardless to the 100 million+ people that are immunocompromised, have co-morbidities, or children (not your imaginary villain), and that we can build hospitals and train people. Your link supports nothing other than you fallacious viewpoint that we can vaccinate ourselves out of this which is simply a misnomer.
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I hope, most of you know that hospitals and SNFs became the highest risk to catch the virus. Wonder, why. 
