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Old 08-12-2021, 06:56 AM
 
28,576 posts, read 18,602,909 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Du Ma View Post
I served in the US Army from 2000-2014 (6 out of 14 years as a Platoon Leader, XO, and CO).

The excuses "I was only following order" doesn't work anymore, especially after the Abu Ghraib prison torture scandals.

How about add "lawful" in front of the orders?
Tell me how a court-martial would agree that an order to take this vaccine is unlawful.
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Old 08-12-2021, 07:24 AM
 
Location: Cali
14,101 posts, read 4,473,011 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
Tell me how a court-martial would agree that an order to take this vaccine is unlawful.
nobody is going to get court martial for refusing to take the vaccine, period. it's an administrative task.

it's no difference than fatbody gets chaptered out for not losing weight or passing APFT
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Old 08-12-2021, 07:57 AM
 
28,576 posts, read 18,602,909 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Du Ma View Post
nobody is going to get court martial for refusing to take the vaccine, period. it's an administrative task.

it's no difference than fatbody gets chaptered out for not losing weight or passing APFT
That's not the question I asked, you're attempting a diversion.

You implied that an order to get vaccinated would be an unlawful order.

Explain to me how a court-martial would find that an unlawful order.
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Old 08-12-2021, 08:06 AM
 
Location: Cali
14,101 posts, read 4,473,011 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
That's not the question I asked, you're attempting a diversion.

You implied that an order to get vaccinated would be an unlawful order.

Explain to me how a court-martial would find that an unlawful order.
In 1998 US Congress forbade DoD to require troops to take non approved drugs without their consent. Only the POTUS can waive that consent.

And let's say Biden waives that consent and some troops still refuse to take the vaccine, they still aren't going to get court martialed for an administrative task.
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Old 08-12-2021, 08:40 AM
 
8,726 posts, read 7,363,849 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
I didn't get a choice with the swine flu vaccine, nor with the anthrax vaccine.

When it comes to "choice" the message of the military is that you lost your last free choice when you signed up. Everything after that is a matter of the choices they allow you.

Hell, if we had "choice" we'd vote not to deploy.
Anthrax and swine flu have existed long before we have. They were not unknown diseases.
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Old 08-12-2021, 09:28 AM
 
28,576 posts, read 18,602,909 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Du Ma View Post
In 1998 US Congress forbade DoD to require troops to take non approved drugs without their consent. Only the POTUS can waive that consent.
The POTUS can also--and subsequently did--order the FDA to develop protocols to allow the DoD to administer "Investigative New Drugs" to service members without their consent.

Quote:
And let's say Biden waives that consent and some troops still refuse to take the vaccine, they still aren't going to get court martialed for an administrative task.
That would not be a matter of the order having been "unlawful." If so, they would have to prosecute the officer who gave the order.

Yes, you're right that they would be unlikely to court-martial a soldier over failure to perform an administrative task because court-martials are too expensive when they can more quickly and easily just administratively discharge him.

But that has nothing to do with it being an "unlawful" order, as you insinuated.
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Old 08-12-2021, 12:29 PM
 
28,576 posts, read 18,602,909 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k350 View Post
Anthrax and swine flu have existed long before we have. They were not unknown diseases.
That's irrelevant.
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Old 08-12-2021, 12:34 PM
 
18,493 posts, read 15,458,741 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by World_Travel_2011 View Post
Maybe so but currently is about 30% unvaccinated. Shouldnt a worst case scenario be planned for? I would like to see your stats that show it will only be 1% that refuse.
If they do not get vaccinated, then you're going to have a lot of people in the barracks getting sick at the same time. Not exactly a good thing for operations...
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Old 08-12-2021, 12:58 PM
 
8,726 posts, read 7,363,849 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ncole1 View Post
If they do not get vaccinated, then you're going to have a lot of people in the barracks getting sick at the same time. Not exactly a good thing for operations...
Not at all. Most people do not have any symptoms, do not even know they have it, those that have symptoms, mild at the most, especially the cohort that makes up most of the military.
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Old 08-12-2021, 04:59 PM
 
Location: Arizona
12,852 posts, read 7,059,801 times
Reputation: 9845
Quote:
Originally Posted by Du Ma View Post
In 1998 US Congress forbade DoD to require troops to take non approved drugs without their consent. Only the POTUS can waive that consent.

And let's say Biden waives that consent and some troops still refuse to take the vaccine, they still aren't going to get court martialed for an administrative task.
Biden has waived the consent the only option is they can separate from the military if someone is looking forward to a retirement not really an option. Have to admit Anthrax vaccine was way worse then covid vaccine. FDA is going to give full approve the Pfizer vaccine in the next few weeks anyway .
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