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Mostly agree here, however the more that has come out (or the more I have studied it) has convinced me that the high-ranking Nazis knew as early as 1943 that they were going to lose. Yet they continued a lost war for 2 more years. What on earth for?
I suspect most knew that Germany was going to lose as soon as Hitler announced Operation Barbarossa (invasion of the USSR). In spite of starting out with a much larger air force, the German military showed they weren't even able to defeat the British in the air in 1940. Taking on the Soviets wasn't going to end well. The Soviet military leadership had been decimated by Stalin and his purges before the war, leading to the Nazi's rapid advance early in the invasion. But Soviet leadership managed to rebuild, and against all odds, they managed to dramatically increase their industrial output of military equipment (especially tanks) throughout the war. Germany's only chance was to defeat the Soviets before the winter of '41-once that didn't happen it was just a matter of time.
Much the same could be said about the more realistic Japanese leadership even before US involvement. Yamamato certainly knew that they would not win if the US was drawn in-Pearl Harbor was a desperate attempt to hit us and hope public sentiment over American losses would have us surrender before our industrial capacity was fully mobilized. But he knew it was their only bet, and one that wasn't likely to play out. Sadly he was one of the few voices of reason in the Japanese high command. The IJA upper leadership was in denial and had delusions of grandeur. They were the real reason that Japan wouldn't surrender even after the end was obvious-and necessitated the fire bombings and eventually the use of the atomic bombs.
Saying the Soviet Union "defeated Nazi Germany" is a stretch.
Without a doubt, the Soviets did the lion's share to grind down the massed armies of the German juggernaut. America certainly did not do it alone.
That said, the atom bomb would have been game over for Hitler, with or without Russia.
I really do not think Russia could have beaten Germany in a one-on-one war scenario. The Germans were impossibly fighting on two fronts. Russia's superior numbers alone would not have overcome Germany's technological superiority and superior training and tactics. At best, it would have been a stalemate.
How would the Soviets have fared if Germany was not fighting on a second front?
How would the Soviets have fared if America and Britain were not bombing German manufacturing and infrastructure back to the stone age? I am not aware of any Soviet bombing campaign against Germany.
How would Russia have fared if Germany didn't need a full Navy to opposed Britain and the USA? All of that manufacturing capacity could have gone to armor and aircraft instead.
The Soviet Union did not defeat Germany. They killed a lot of German soldiers and destroyed a lot of armor, but America and Great Britain were doing a vast amount of damage to Germany on the Western front and costing Germany a lot of resoures that otherwise would have been focused on the Eastern front.
Germany was done after Stalingrad and Kursk. After that it was just a matter of time.
In fact, just few weeks prior to Hiroshima, 8 cities were attacked by the U.S. Army Air Force, and were as completely or more completely destroyed than Hiroshima. During the summer 1945, over 60 Japanese cities were mercilessly destroyed by terror bombing without regard for civilian life, and this really should be a serious challenge for people who want to make the bombing of Hiroshima the cause of Japan’s surrender.
The same question might be asked of the Japanese leadership. Their ability to engage in offensive, expansionary warfare was checked at Midway and ended at Guadalcanal. Their ability to challenge the U.S. Navy in any meaningful way was lost at the Philippine Sea. Their ability to challenge the U.S. Navy in any way at all was lost at Leyte Gulf. And their ability to protect their own homeland was lost starting when we incinerated large swaths of Tokyo. Thus, by March 1945 at the latest, it should have been blindingly obvious that the war was lost. Yet, they fought on. Why?
I have wondered about them as well. Did their intelligence give them any warning about the A bomb, by chance?
In fact, just few weeks prior to Hiroshima, 8 cities were attacked by the U.S. Army Air Force, and were as completely or more completely destroyed than Hiroshima. During the summer 1945, over 60 Japanese cities were mercilessly destroyed by terror bombing without regard for civilian life, and this really should be a serious challenge for people who want to make the bombing of Hiroshima the cause of Japan’s surrender.
So what was holding their surrender up? Seeing Hiroshima turned into a parking lot still didn't do the job.
In fact, just few weeks prior to Hiroshima, 8 cities were attacked by the U.S. Army Air Force, and were as completely or more completely destroyed than Hiroshima. During the summer 1945, over 60 Japanese cities were mercilessly destroyed by terror bombing without regard for civilian life, and this really should be a serious challenge for people who want to make the bombing of Hiroshima the cause of Japan’s surrender.
Most bombing in WW2 was done without regard to civilian life. Nothing unusual going on in Japan. Japanese did it, along with Germans, Brits, Americans.
Then it all stopped one day.
During the summer 1945, over 60 Japanese cities were mercilessly destroyed by terror bombing without regard for civilian life
WE WERE AT WAR. And the Japanese were at war with us.
And the Japanese were training their civilians - men, women, children - to attack American troops if/when they invaded the Japanese home islands.
There were no "civilians" in Japan during WWII. Just troops they hadn't deployed yet... but were going to, and soon.
America's objective was to get the war finished as soon as possible, with the least expenditure of American lives possible, and in a way that would make sure Japan would never attack us (or anyone else) again.
And it worked.
This tripe about how cruel the Americans were being is getting old.
And it is always spouted by people who have no clue what they would have done to achieve America's objectives listed above instead.
I have wondered about them as well. Did their intelligence give them any warning about the A bomb, by chance?
I have never read anything to indicate that they knew they were about to get hit with an atomic bomb. Certain government officials were aware of the possibility. In fact, Japan was itself working on developing an atomic bomb, though they were nowhere even close to actually building one. It would have taken them years more work, and that's if we didn't make things hard on them by bombing their research facilities, which we did.
Toward the end of the war, the United States would drop leaflets on cities that were about to be bombed, warning the inhabitants to evacuate. This turned out to have a profound effect on Japanese morale. It told the civilians that America was so powerful that they could announce their raids in advance, secure in the knowledge that Japan was unable to stop them from attacking. It also told them that their own military was powerless to protect them. And finally, it gave them a favorable impression of Americans, because they were concerned enough about the lives of their enemy's civilians that they would warn them about an attack ahead of time.
I actually don't recall if Hiroshima itself was given this kind of warning. But I do know that the Japanese government was warned to surrender or else expect (paraphrasing) a rain of ruin from the air, the likes of which had never been seen before. Coming from the country that had already incinerated over 60 Japanese cities, one would think that this would have been taken seriously. But unfortunately for the people of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, their government did not do so.
I have wondered about them as well. Did their intelligence give them any warning about the A bomb, by chance?
Vice President Harry Truman knew nothing about the Bomb until after FDR died on April 12, 1945. That night after Truman was sworn in as President, he was given a short briefing where he was told in vague terms that American scientists were trying to create a terrible weapon of such destructive power that it might blow up the world. (The nuclear scientists themselves said at that point that they could not accurately estimate the power of the weapon, and a number of them allowed that the destruction of the planet was one of the possibilities.)
So no, the Japanese knew nothing about the Bomb until 8:15AM, August 15, 1945.
In fact, just few weeks prior to Hiroshima, 8 cities were attacked by the U.S. Army Air Force, and were as completely or more completely destroyed than Hiroshima. During the summer 1945, over 60 Japanese cities were mercilessly destroyed by terror bombing without regard for civilian life, and this really should be a serious challenge for people who want to make the bombing of Hiroshima the cause of Japan’s surrender.
Every bombing mission over Japan resulted in the loss of American lives. Until Hiroshima. The Japanese reported seeing 3-4 B-29s prior to the detonation.
The March 10, 1945 raid over Tokyo, for instance, involved 325 B-29s and resulted in 14 aircraft destroyed and almost 100 American deaths. The Japanese knew every mission weakened US forces and caused the loss of life and material. Their plan was to fight a war of attrition and sue for peace on more favorable grounds.
Hiroshima kind of threw a monkey wrench into their plans because the resources involved in the actual bombing appeared to be minimal (on the surface.)
Anyway, to criticize what was deemed necessary in 1945 some 75 later is cowardly. They did what they thought was necessary to end the war. You weren't there, you butt was not on the line, so perhaps you should **** about it.
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