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Im not defending the sadistic/criminal actions of the Japanese military. I wonder, did those responsible for criminal acts actually suffer a penalty, or did we give them reconstruction jobs like we did with many Nazis?
Truman arrogantly used every resource at his disposal except for diplomacy. Why talk peace when you can slaughter a bunch of non-combatants to prove how big and bad you are? We sure showed them.
Such a stunning lack of awareness, especially given the number US citizens that suffered the same fate for much the same reasons on 9/11
1) Yes. Many did. There are many good books or even yotube videos on Japanese war crime trials. Many of their leaders committed suicide along the way so there is that consideration that it's hard to prosecute them in that case.
2) Japan wasn't surrendering. Hard to blame us for not being "diplomatic". ESPECIALLY because Japan was trying to negotiate thru Russia.
Now think about that last point and check this out, pay close attention to the date Russia declared war on them.
Im not defending the sadistic/criminal actions of the Japanese military. I wonder, did those responsible for criminal acts actually suffer a penalty, or did we give them reconstruction jobs like we did with many Nazis?
Truman arrogantly used every resource at his disposal except for diplomacy. Why talk peace when you can slaughter a bunch of non-combatants to prove how big and bad you are? We sure showed them.
Such a stunning lack of awareness, especially given the number US citizens that suffered the same fate for much the same reasons on 9/11
??????????????
It is clear that you have not read the history of world war II in any great detail.
I guess you forgot that the allies had agreed on unconditional surrender for the axis powers. There was to be no negotiation for "terms" and the Japanese were fully aware of this. As I said above, the Japanese were seeking to approach the Soviets (they were not at war with the Soviets at that time) to mediate peace talks, but had not taken formal efforts. Even AFTER the second atomic bomb, there was dissention regarding surrender in the Japanese war council; prior to the atomic bombs and the invasion by the Soviets, Japan had NO INTENTION WHATSOEVER of surrender. The contention of impending surrender is a modern liberal myth, which is in stark contrast to the facts and documents obtained post war. In fact, even after Hirohito approved of the surrender, members of the Japanese military attempted A COUP TO OVERTHROW HIM. The coup was defeated and the surrender proceeded.
The US DID TRY DIPLOMACY. They were in active peace talks with the Japanese when they bombed Pearl Harbor.
You are obviously unaware of the civilian casualties caused by the incendiary bombings of Japan; the civilian casualties were far worse than those suffered by the atomic bombs. Over 100,000 Japanese civilians had already died in the Tokyo napalm bombings, which of course, did not use nukes. General LeMay pledged to bomb Japan "back into the Stone Age" and was quoted:
"If you are going to use military force, then you ought to use overwhelming military force. Use too much and deliberately use too much; you'll save lives, not only of your own, but the enemy's too".
Curtis LeMay
"Before we are done with them, Japanese will be a language only spoken in hell"
Bill Halsey
As before I am 100% sure YOU WOULD NOT HAVE SACRIFICED YOUR OWN LIFE in the invasion of Japan, yet would have been eager to SACRIFICE THE LIVES OF OVER 1 MILLION OF YOUR FELLOW AMERICANS AS WELL AS SEVERAL MILLION JAPANESE to assuage your hurt feelings over the use of the atomic bomb.
Like most liberals, you would not have sacrificed ANYTHING yourself, but feel just fine about the deaths of millions of other humans. To what end? Your position is lunacy. Most of my uncles, my father, my father in law, and my wife's uncles would have participated in that invasion and many would have died. They already risked their lives (and some lost them) fighting the Japanese. How many million deaths do you need to satisfy your blood lust?
READ HISTORY. Your views are 100% wrong.
Were there many Japanese tried for war crimes? YES! Many were tried and executed, particularly for their roles in the deaths of allied POWs. How many more do you want to kill? Some of them are still around today.
Lastly, I'm sure you are completely unaware that Japan was working on developing ITS OWN NUCLEAR BOMBS. They certainly would have used them on us without a second thought. In May, 1945, a German U boat was intercepted attempting to deliver 1,200 pounds of uranium oxide to the Japanese. Cyclotrons were discovered specifically being used in the development of a nuclear bomb when the US forces occupied Japan. Without even a second thought, the Japanese would have used nuclear arms on us.
Your hatred of Truman is absurd. You are obviously not aware that Truman discussed the use of the bomb with Churchill and Stalin, who both eagerly agreed with the use of the atomic bomb on Japan. Additionally, it was Truman who PROHIBITED THE USE OF THE ATOMIC BOMB on the Chinese in the Korean War, despite requests from McArthur to do so.
Last edited by hawkeye2009; 08-06-2021 at 08:28 AM..
A neighbor, now deceased, was on the bomber flights that firebombed Japan. He was unable to reconcile his actions in the war with his religious beliefs and values. He suffered horrible PTSD and guilt in the final days of his life.
I come from a family that has been military since the Spanish-American War. All the men have been soldiers, all the women have married soldiers.
I spent a career in the Air Force, but my father and most uncles (including inlaws) were ground combat veterans, mostly of multiple wars.
In their latter years, knowing they were close to death, I've had several of those old men call me aside in private to unburden themselves with the combat horrors they faced...and had kept hidden and unspoken all those decades.
This topic always pops up and we get some typically younger folks that watched a youtube video about us nuking Japan and then get all hot and bothered about how we were so mean to Japan blah blah blah.
Here's a chart for you. Notice the orange bar, it's civilian deaths and lo and behold #1 for that is China. Who do you think did that?
My father, dead aged 84 in 2009, had been in Patton's army in Europe. Indeed, my father's unit was the first the enter the concentration camp "Ohrduf", and witnessed the mayor and his wife being, by force, escorted through the camp to see the horror (they had claimed they weren't aware of what was happening in the camp; they committed suicide that evening). What my father saw long haunted him.
Anyway, my father was mustered out in July, sent back to the east coast of USA, and after a couple of weeks was on a train to the west coast, to take part in the invasion of Japan. During his trip. the bombs were dropped, and then the war ended. I think he was then mustered out of the army, in late August, in Kansas City. I know that he took a train down to Fort Worth, where he arrived on August 31st, and was met by his parents at the train station.
His father greeted him, and said that as soon as the war was over, he had enrolled my father in law school at the University of Texas. My father went to his parents house for a day or two, then the train to Austin to start school.
So, my father always said he was glad for the two bombs. He had seen horrors enough for a lifetime, and he knew that invading Japan would mean tremendous loss of American lives.
One of my uncles served with Patton at the Battle of the Bulge during World War II. He was 92 when he passed away in 2009. I have another uncle still living that served in World War II. He is 96. Neither spoke much about the war but both were glad for the bombs, as were their kids, grandkids, and great-grandkids and so on.
Right, so - looks like the trenches have already been dug, but anyway:
Any criticism that can be directed at the nuclear weapons can be directed at the WWII approach to strategic bombing over all. And it's an unfair criticism to make.
The Allies funneled colossal amounts of manhours into building, manning and operating long-range bombers. This was a grand strategy decision - do we funnel resources into making (for instance) giant long-range submarines or do we go the route of 4-engine bombers? We can't do both, and we won't know if the decision is the right one for a year or so.
Well, it turned out that Allied long-range bombers couldn't hit their targets with anywhere near the precision expected from pre-war tests. Or - if flown in a manner that made the bombing precise - the losses were such that they'd run out of bombers and crew in mere months. So, here we are - millions of manhours and countless resources spent on a tool that's not very precise. You can't just re-tool the assembly lines for something else and hope it's better.
So you do what you do in war: You take the fight to the enemy with what you have. If the only thing we can hit is a city-sized target, city bombing it is. War production takes place in the cities. Roads and railroads meet in the cities. Ports are in cities. Workers live in cities. It's a crude tool, but it may shorten the war.
The exact same logic applies to the nuclear bombs.
It's a cold equation, and I for one am damn grateful I'd never had to make that sort of decision.
You can't put the war on hold as you assess the sincerity of a diplomatic feeler. Even after both nuclear bombs were dropped, very senior officers in the Japanese military tried to stop the emperor's message of surrender reaching the radio station - almost succeeded, too.
If anyone here has read "Quartered safe out here", Fraser - who fought as an infantryman in Burma - has a pretty thoughtful chapter on the nuclear bombs.
1) Yes. Many did. There are many good books or even yotube videos on Japanese war crime trials. Many of their leaders committed suicide along the way so there is that consideration that it's hard to prosecute them in that case.
2) Japan wasn't surrendering. Hard to blame us for not being "diplomatic". ESPECIALLY because Japan was trying to negotiate thru Russia.
Now think about that last point and check this out, pay close attention to the date Russia declared war on them.
This is an absolute crock.
There were no official peace overtures from Japan. None. On July 22, 1945 the Japanese ambassador to the Soviet Union sent a message to foreign minister Togo saying the best terms Japan could hope to secure were unconditional surrender, modified only to the extent that the Imperial institution could be retained. This was flat out rejected.
Also, there is no record of any set of circumstances under which Japan would surrender put forth by anyone in the Japanese cabinet. More importantly, none of these men even after the war claimed that there was any set of terms of circumstances that would have prompted Japan to surrender prior to Hiroshima.
The Potsdam Declaration of July 26 was also ignored by the Japanese. Truman saved millions of lives with his decision, both allied and Japanese.
You couldn't be more wrong.
Amen. Japan barely surrendered after 2 atomic weapons. To think they would have before is beyond stupid.
The weapons worked as intended to end a horrible way. Unlike Nanking, we accepted a surrender w/o further punishing Japan.
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