Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
BALONEY! This is an example of statistic manipulation to make something palatable, all in the hopes that low information people won't question it!
You are assuming #1 that the PRODUCT is the same. IT IS NOT! The entire world depends on the USA for medical innovations that simply wouldn't happen without free market incentives. The best doctors in the world, the best technology in the world, etc. are HERE.
#2 you are not factoring in massive increases in taxes that is require for single payer systems, and the ridiculous wait times!
Do you really think Healthcare is the ONLY thing in the history of the world that is not bound by the rules of competition????
Seriously?
What's the point of arguing against a brick wall? I bring statistics showing Americans pay more for healthcare, and you call it statistical manipulation (no proof). You are operating on assumptions too buddy. American companies are not the only ones out there. Look at the companies with the most revenue in pharma. Plenty of companies coming from "socialist medicine" countries contributing to the free market (we can ignore the Chinese company, because they DEFINITELY aren't free market).
Yes, the best doctors in the world are in America. Neither you, nor I, can afford those doctors. So it's besides the point that you can get the best outcomes in America (if you can afford it), because most average Americans are experiencing worse outcomes than average Canadians, Brits, Germans, etc.
No system is perfect, you can criticize universal healthcare systems for a myriad of reasons. But dollar for dollar, universal healthcare is cheaper for the average citizen, and the average citizen enjoys better outcomes.
What's the point of arguing against a brick wall? I bring statistics showing Americans pay more for healthcare, and you call it statistical manipulation (no proof). You are operating on assumptions too buddy. American companies are not the only ones out there. Look at the companies with the most revenue in pharma. Plenty of companies coming from "socialist medicine" countries contributing to the free market (we can ignore the Chinese company, because they DEFINITELY aren't free market).
Yes, the best doctors in the world are in America. Neither you, nor I, can afford those doctors. So it's besides the point that you can get the best outcomes in America (if you can afford it), because most average Americans are experiencing worse outcomes than average Canadians, Brits, Germans, etc.
No system is perfect, you can criticize universal healthcare systems for a myriad of reasons. But dollar for dollar, universal healthcare is cheaper for the average citizen, and the average citizen enjoys better outcomes.
More baloney. Could you explain the massive reduction in medical innovation that would happen if the USA went to a government-cheese non-profit healthcare system?
Could you elaborate on the effect that would have on the "average person?"
And why do you shoot for such a low bar? Just like a good socialist, you want widespread, forced mediocrity to meet some silly standard of the "average citizen." Why do we want to be average?
Why did Canada's socialized system rely on our private for-profit system to get the vax? You still haven't answered.
More baloney. Could you explain the massive reduction in medical innovation that would happen if the USA went to a government-cheese non-profit healthcare system?
Could you elaborate on the effect that would have on the "average person?"
And why do you shoot for such a low bar? Just like a good socialist, you want widespread, forced mediocrity to meet some silly standard of the "average citizen." Why do we want to be average?
Why did Canada's socialized system rely on our private for-profit system to get the vax? You still haven't answered.
Trying to equate UHC to vaccine production is a non-starter, since the two are very different things, since private pharma companies exist in Canada. It's was a production issue, not a UHC issue.
The UK, with socialized medicine, created the Astra Zeneca vaccine for example, a vaccine which Canada has approved.
Canada had procured more than enough vaccines for itself, from mainly European sources. Pfizer shut down a Belgian plant to expand, and Moderna had troubles delivering what was promised.
Canada learned, that we can't rely on on allies for the production of vaccines in the future and that is being addressed as we speak.
Today Canada is in a good spot with vaccination rates, some of the highest in the world, and yes ahead of the USA. Is that a commentary on the US vs Canada systems? No.
I also find it funny, that those who oppose UHC in the US, praise the US for using a UHC approach in getting people vaccinated. Really funny.
Do you enjoy going yo the DMV or dealing with the IRS?
Because those are the people that are going to handle your health scare...
Speaking for Canada's system, it doesn't work like that, even if it did, dealing with the Motor Vehicle Branch and the CRA isn't THAT bad in Canada anyway.
In Canada the government doesn't deliver healthcare. They deliver the insurance. The government has NO say in what goes on between you and your doctor. Doctors aren't checking in with some government official on what treatment they can offer. Heck, they don't even have to check with an insurance company.
More baloney. Could you explain the massive reduction in medical innovation that would happen if the USA went to a government-cheese non-profit healthcare system?
Could you elaborate on the effect that would have on the "average person?"
And why do you shoot for such a low bar? Just like a good socialist, you want widespread, forced mediocrity to meet some silly standard of the "average citizen." Why do we want to be average?
Why did Canada's socialized system rely on our private for-profit system to get the vax? You still haven't answered.
Canada did not rely upon America's healthcare , it relied upon foreign pharma companies, some owned by the U.S. to sell it vaccines. YOur country had to buy the vaccines also - and I bet they paid more.
How did American medicare and medicaid recipients get their vaccines? YOU have three times as many people on "socialized" Medicare (single payer) than Canada has people.
Why don't you use your own country as your whipping boy. Go ahead vilify your medicare because it is exactly the same as Canada's system of single payer.
Lastly; since you erroneously directly link the vaccination rate in a country to the stature of it's healthcare system ; explain this:
Canada has 61% of it's population totally vaccinated with two shots - your country hovering at just under 50%. You made the comparison, so we can conclude your system sucks, eh?
Even though I am more on the right politically, I have on many occasions supported a universal health care system for the US.
I am moving away from this position for the following reasons:
-We've seen leftists around the globe advocate or implement priority treatments/vaccines for some races over other races. With the woke equity BS, leftists will push this more and more across government policies.
-I've seen leftists say that they want unvaccinated covid patients to be left off insurance coverage because being unvaccinated is a choice and could potentially push up insurance costs for everyone in the pool. This is merely foreshadowing leftist weaponization of a national health care for other things potentially. Too obese? No national health care for you. Do a recreational activity that is shunned and get hurt, no care. Etc.
Because of the for profit structure in the health care system many public and rural hospitals have closed over the years. This has created a scarcity of resources in times of emergency. The people supporting this system are fighting Covid vaccination. These are people who want to walk around and risk others when if someone else gets sick they have to bear the financial costs.
Telling people who refuse vaccination that insurance will not cover them is the perfect example of the current system in action. I say let them deal with the consequences of their decisions. This isn’t a leftist position. This is telling someone “this is the system you have fought to uphold, enjoy”
However if the system is universal and adequate resources are spent so there is preparation to handle an emergency and people who get sick don’t have huge financial burden to stay alive then vaccine refusal sounds more reasonable.
Canada did not rely upon America's healthcare , it relied upon foreign pharma companies, some owned by the U.S. to sell it vaccines. YOur country had to buy the vaccines also - and I bet they paid more.
How did American medicare and medicaid recipients get their vaccines? YOU have three times as many people on "socialized" Medicare (single payer) than Canada has people.
Why don't you use your own country as your whipping boy. Go ahead vilify your medicare because it is exactly the same as Canada's system of single payer.
Lastly; since you erroneously directly link the vaccination rate in a country to the stature of it's healthcare system ; explain this:
Canada has 61% of it's population totally vaccinated with two shots - your country hovering at just under 50%. You made the comparison, so we can conclude your system sucks, eh?
I believe it's similar, but not the same. Medicare in the US still restricts what doctors will accept you I believe. Plus there is some costs involved.
Even though I am more on the right politically, I have on many occasions supported a universal health care system for the US.
I am moving away from this position for the following reasons:
-We've seen leftists around the globe advocate or implement priority treatments/vaccines for some races over other races. With the woke equity BS, leftists will push this more and more across government policies.
-I've seen leftists say that they want unvaccinated covid patients to be left off insurance coverage because being unvaccinated is a choice and could potentially push up insurance costs for everyone in the pool. This is merely foreshadowing leftist weaponization of a national health care for other things potentially. Too obese? No national health care for you. Do a recreational activity that is shunned and get hurt, no care. Etc.
I'm against universal healthcare federally bc the gov't bc they can't do anything right. They're in bed with the pharmaceutical companies and it's disgusting.
However NOBODY is stopping anyone of any race from getting vaccinated and they're free. If you're young and healthy I can understand not getting one. But black and hispanic people CHOOSING not to get them doesn't make them racist.Actual racism is disgusting - giving equal opportunities and having different results is not remotely racist.
IT IS NOT! The entire world depends on the USA for medical innovations that simply wouldn't happen without free market incentives.
Like the Pfizer vaccine, y'know. Well, OK, that was Germany.
Quote:
The best doctors in the world, the best technology in the world, etc. are HERE.
An interesting change of perspective. If you're a Saudi prince needing surgery, sure. If you're on a fixed income and need maintenance medication, well - sucks to be you.
Quote:
#2 you are not factoring in massive increases in taxes that is require for single payer systems, and the ridiculous wait times!
Of course the figures are based on tax funding. And as for wait times - sure, the exists, mostly for elective procedures. OTOH, most UHC systems guarantee access for important procedures.
Quote:
Do you really think Healthcare is the ONLY thing in the history of the world that is not bound by the rules of competition????
Perhaps those rules aren't as iron-clad as you seem to think?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
