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Old 08-14-2021, 08:28 AM
 
Location: Florida
14,968 posts, read 9,804,055 times
Reputation: 12074

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tamajane View Post
They seem pretty confident that vaccines are going to make us "safe". Enough such that we can now crowd in concert halls and bars if we are vaccinated. They are not saying this is just experimental. It seems quite irresponsible since the virus can still be transmitted among the vaccinated and they are bouncing it around tempting a new extra resistant variant.
Should we lock down again? just in case?
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Old 08-14-2021, 08:36 AM
 
19,620 posts, read 12,218,208 times
Reputation: 26411
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_n_Tenn View Post
Should we lock down again? just in case?
No idea, but people should not be told vaccinate and take no precautions is totally safe and the key to getting back to normal while being encouraged to demonize and punish those who are not vaccinated. It is arrogant and naive to feel impervious because of a couple of experimental jabs against an unknown, novel virus.
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Old 08-14-2021, 08:42 AM
 
Location: Phoenix
30,362 posts, read 19,143,696 times
Reputation: 26249
Scientists today are whores to be bought off to the highest bidder. An independent scientist is extremely rare and hard to find.
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Old 08-14-2021, 08:44 AM
 
Location: Florida
14,968 posts, read 9,804,055 times
Reputation: 12074
Quote:
Originally Posted by tamajane View Post
No idea, but people should not be told vaccinate and take no precautions is totally safe and the key to getting back to normal while being encouraged to demonize and punish those who are not vaccinated. It is arrogant and naive to feel impervious because of a couple of experimental jabs against an unknown, novel virus.
Well, I will never lockdown again... unless I'm arrested and locked up. The most absurd thing ever, was not allowing boaters to be within 50' of each other. I was stopped by coast guard and boarded for inspection and they told me that. I asked if they would arrest me if I violated the 50' rule. No answer. That day along with 20 or so other boaters at the sandbar ... they showed up and reminded us again. We laughed, they left.


This is not different than knowing that you don't play in traffic, but playing is important and we should do it.
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Old 08-14-2021, 08:45 AM
 
Location: Barrington
63,919 posts, read 46,725,169 times
Reputation: 20674
Quote:
Originally Posted by World_Travel_2011 View Post
A month ago, we were told by the health experts that Dallas county in Texas had reached herd immunity through a combination of vaccination and natural immunity. Now, Dallas county has a county wide mask mandate with the county judge threatening lockdowns may soon come.

This is but one example of many where the experts have been grossly wrong. A year ago, we were told by scientists that the virus lived on surfaces for long periods of time. People were scared to open doors. My company installed foot openers at the doors so people could use their feet instead of hands to open doors. Lysol was impossible to come by and everyone was washing every surface before touching it. It was crazy. Only to find out that the scientists said that wasnt necessary after all.

My office had strict masking rules, strict social distancing requirements, supervised temperature checks before entry, and a monthly pledge we all had to sign where we had to promise to call in sick if we had any of the covid symptoms. This was all at the recommendation of the company epidemiologists and the CDC. Yet the virus spread right through the office. None of those measures that the experts recommended seemed to work at all.

Yet we are told we need to trust the science. We need to trust the experts. But they have been wrong more than they have been right. If anyone else was as wrong as much as they have been then nobody would trust them. If politicians were this wrong, they would be labeled a flip flopper or incompetent and voted out of office. If I were this wrong at work, I would quickly be fired.

You can say things change. Except that doesnt explain why they confidently touted the previous claim as being a fact. If you dont know, the best thing to do isnt to BS and proclaim it as fact. The best thing is to admit that you dont know but will have an answer once enough information is available. Then liberals wonder why there is such distrust of the vaccines?

A perfect example is this time last year Trump was mocked and fact checked for claiming the vaccines would be ready by the end of the year. Scientists said it would be at least 2 years and possibly as high as ten years. At the same time, the China lab theory was labeled racist, xenophobic and pushing it would have you fact checked or cancelled by social media.

On top of all that, the scientists themselves have been shocking in their behavior and advice. Dr Fauci claimed this time last year that social distancing and lockdowns were necessary to stop the spread while at the same time encouraging people to meet random strangers off the internet for sex. Neil Ferguson in Britain famously championed lockdowns only to be caught breaking his own lockdown measures while sick with covid. It makes you wonder if he really believes what he is pushing. Obviously not concerned about his own risk.

It all begs the question of how does science and scientists keep bungling this? Why do we still trust them after being wrong so much? Amazing that so many would be so willing to give up so much for the rest of their lives on such a poor record. If your financial planner was wrong on so many investments he suggested, you would get rid of him and never listen to him again. Maybe we should start doing the same with the experts who chronically get it wrong.
Fauci recommended meeting random strangers off the internet for sex? Tell us more.

Something about the term “ novel” continues to elude some people.

No one knew with certainty how Covid spread nor how long it could live on a surface.

There has ever been any certainty with the durability of immunity associated with a prior infection or what it would take to achieve a semblance of herd immunity.

The entire developed world threw everything it had at a vaccine. Russia had a vaccine several months before the US. Both the UK and Canada approved the vaccine before the US. The speed of this approval seems to be one of the factors that has caused anti Covid vaxers to be uncomfortable being vaccinated.

Viruses mutate in every newly infected host. Most mutations quickly die off. A few emerge as dominate.

All vaccines were developed, trialed and approved before the delta variant emerged in India in December. It was first identified in the US in March, 2021 and quickly became the most dominate. We know it is substantially more spreadable that the original virus.

We now know that vaccines do not provide the same level of protection against the delta variant as they did with the original form of Covid. A breakthrough infection is a very real possibility.At the same time, vaccines do provide substantial protection to the masses against serious consequences like hospitalization and death as opposed to being unvaccinated.
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Old 08-14-2021, 08:46 AM
 
19,620 posts, read 12,218,208 times
Reputation: 26411
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tall Traveler View Post
Scientists today are whores to be bought off to the highest bidder. An independent scientist is extremely rare and hard to find.
This is correct. Those who are questioning even a little are being shut down, there is no room for debate. This is what is scary.
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Old 08-14-2021, 08:53 AM
 
Location: Free From The Oppressive State
30,253 posts, read 23,727,877 times
Reputation: 38634
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjshae View Post
Science can only measure what is known at the time. The virus will continue to mutate, so expect more changes.
True, but science also has an open mind with other theories. Science does not close off a door and say, 'Nope, that can't possibly be an answer', which is what these 'SWAGs' (I stole that from Ellwood with a slight modification - Scientists' wild a$$ guessing) are doing.
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Old 08-14-2021, 09:20 AM
 
19,023 posts, read 27,579,284 times
Reputation: 20266
The official science is doing the Mandalorian mistake. It fallows Mandalorian principle "this is The Way" no matter what. They were paid to take a certain way, stepped on it, followed it and now, they got in that quick sand so much that they simply can't get out of it and, potentially, lose all of their privileges. So they dumbly keep pretending, they are the three monkeys and stick to the outdated tune.

Until the source of their $$ backup will not exhaust, they WILL stay on it.
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Old 08-14-2021, 09:21 AM
 
3,422 posts, read 1,839,475 times
Reputation: 1902
Quote:
Originally Posted by World_Travel_2011 View Post
A month ago, we were told by the health experts that Dallas county in Texas had reached herd immunity through a combination of vaccination and natural immunity. Now, Dallas county has a county wide mask mandate with the county judge threatening lockdowns may soon come.

This is but one example of many where the experts have been grossly wrong. A year ago, we were told by scientists that the virus lived on surfaces for long periods of time. People were scared to open doors. My company installed foot openers at the doors so people could use their feet instead of hands to open doors. Lysol was impossible to come by and everyone was washing every surface before touching it. It was crazy. Only to find out that the scientists said that wasnt necessary after all.

My office had strict masking rules, strict social distancing requirements, supervised temperature checks before entry, and a monthly pledge we all had to sign where we had to promise to call in sick if we had any of the covid symptoms. This was all at the recommendation of the company epidemiologists and the CDC. Yet the virus spread right through the office. None of those measures that the experts recommended seemed to work at all.

Yet we are told we need to trust the science. We need to trust the experts. But they have been wrong more than they have been right. If anyone else was as wrong as much as they have been then nobody would trust them. If politicians were this wrong, they would be labeled a flip flopper or incompetent and voted out of office. If I were this wrong at work, I would quickly be fired.

You can say things change. Except that doesnt explain why they confidently touted the previous claim as being a fact. If you dont know, the best thing to do isnt to BS and proclaim it as fact. The best thing is to admit that you dont know but will have an answer once enough information is available. Then liberals wonder why there is such distrust of the vaccines?

A perfect example is this time last year Trump was mocked and fact checked for claiming the vaccines would be ready by the end of the year. Scientists said it would be at least 2 years and possibly as high as ten years. At the same time, the China lab theory was labeled racist, xenophobic and pushing it would have you fact checked or cancelled by social media.

On top of all that, the scientists themselves have been shocking in their behavior and advice. Dr Fauci claimed this time last year that social distancing and lockdowns were necessary to stop the spread while at the same time encouraging people to meet random strangers off the internet for sex. Neil Ferguson in Britain famously championed lockdowns only to be caught breaking his own lockdown measures while sick with covid. It makes you wonder if he really believes what he is pushing. Obviously not concerned about his own risk.

It all begs the question of how does science and scientists keep bungling this? Why do we still trust them after being wrong so much? Amazing that so many would be so willing to give up so much for the rest of their lives on such a poor record. If your financial planner was wrong on so many investments he suggested, you would get rid of him and never listen to him again. Maybe we should start doing the same with the experts who chronically get it wrong.
They think "science" means "politics."

They think we are all stupid.
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Old 08-14-2021, 09:29 AM
 
7,759 posts, read 3,882,899 times
Reputation: 8851
Quote:
Originally Posted by World_Travel_2011 View Post
My office had strict masking rules, strict social distancing requirements, supervised temperature checks before entry, and a monthly pledge we all had to sign where we had to promise to call in sick if we had any of the covid symptoms. This was all at the recommendation of the company epidemiologists and the CDC. Yet the virus spread right through the office. None of those measures that the experts recommended seemed to work at all.

Yet we are told we need to trust the science.
It very simple.

- Your ventilation system was likely inadequate
- People likely took their sweet time eating lunch (obviously maskless)
- Capacity wasn't restricted
- How many in the office actually got vaccinated?

The problem isn't the rules, it's usually the people who simply don't follow them correctly.
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