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I live in a managed community so I'm pretty sure I know the rules here but thank you for telling me your opinion.
Well your community has opened itself up to a federal discrimination suit. One which they would most likely lose. You cannot ban Section 8. Now if your community bans rentals in general than that is a different story.
Well your community has opened itself up to a federal discrimination suit. One which they would most likely lose. You cannot ban Section 8. Now if your community bans rentals in general than that is a different story.
So you're saying that EVERY rental has to accept section 8? Can you post a link of this information so I can take it to my management office in the morning?
So you're saying that EVERY rental has to accept section 8? Can you post a link of this information so I can take it to my management office in the morning?
You probably won't get an answer since this is like the right wing claims on PP, i.e. based on a fairytale.
It is high time that people of all colors start to take action for their own lives single mothers stop sleeping with every tom dick and harry others stop taking drugs to try to run away from your own shortcomings. freddy the free loader soon very soon all of you will not be having these free rides much longer when the global market crash happen. while others work very hard for their money. the problem is with people is that they think in their minds that the rest of us is held accountable for their lives i am afraid that it is not the wy it work. when you will be judge by God it will be a one on one you sure will not be with another only two will be there Your Maker and yourself .That is the truth.Be true to yourselves humans.
For those who don't know,
You have to be really really poor to qualify for Sec 8 housing.
There is a waiting list a mile long, 10 year wait in most major cities to
actually get a Sect, 8 rental.
Poverty is ugly and depressing.
Has anyone on this forum ever been poor?
Most of all Sec. 8 housing is issued to a parent with minor children.
The more minor children you have, the better chance you are to get
an apartment.
Most Sec. 8 people work at least 1 full time job. Some 2 full time jobs.
So, we should stop all Sec 8 housing, right?
Where are we going to put all these kids?
how are they going to go to school with no address?
Is the State that you live in prepared to house tens of thousands
if not millions of children?
if you loose your shelter, you loose your children.
How many can you personally take in?
Yea, let's pick on poor people.
After all, it's the Christain thing to do, isn't it?
By the way, I am no Christain, just a caring atheist.
And I bet most of you are 3 or 4 paychecks away from
being on the streets yourselves.
As a person who has lived in his neighborhood for 20 years, and who is on the frontier of a rapidly advancing active effort by the City of Philadelphia to extend section 8 / government housing to the far corners of the city and near suburbs, I can unequivecally state that such efforts dramatically raise crime in any given area.
How do I know this?
Well, first, I'm intimately familiar with the history of my general area, through my life experience here and the passed down history and experience of four prior generations of my family, and I am therefore very familiar with the area's historical record of low crime. My grandfather even wrote a book detailing the family's history and his life experience here, and so I have a detailed experiential record to access, which dates back to the 1920's, not to mention my aforementioned entire life experience as a resident.
Second, I regularly look at both the crime statistics and the visual plotting of local crime on a map, organized by incident type, which is updated monthly.
Third, I've been robbed at gunpoint, twice, by these new residents.
Fourth, my uncle's house was broken into (he caught the would-be-thief in the act and the thief exited immediately upon viewing my uncle's handgun).
Fifth, there was a man shot in the head and murdered directly on my childhood block recently (a block that used to be safe for kids to play on, even after dark - no longer), 15 feet from the front door of my childhood best friend's house.
There has been and is a dramatic increase in crime in the neighborhoods where these programs and residents tend to limit themselves (currently), and there is a readily observable drop off in crime beginning in the outlying neighborhoods. When looking at the crime map, if you blur your eyes to make the individual crime incident icons run together, it looks as if someone intentioanlly drew a dividing line between neighborhoods, yet this line is actually comprised of crime incidents perpetrated by it's residents. Think about that.
These people act like animals, comapred to the long-standing residents of my area and their families. That much is obvious to everyone who grew up here (who are all currently plotting their escape due to the dramatically decreased and ever decreasing quality of life courtesy of our new neighbors). The difference in community standards is astounding and confounding, and is completely unnacceptable to us.
The thing is, the large expanse of "high crime" neighborhoods, behind the line, used to be very low crime and perfectly safe. Now, they are absolutely ruined for any reasonable person to inhabit. However, at the same, time, the people responsible for their ruin are the people that live there, and so I ask you: how does affording the people that live there a a relatively indiscriminate socialist lottery to escape what they have created, benefit either them or not severely harm the people of the neighborhodos to which they move?
What you can bet the farm on is that they recreate the neighborhoods from which they came, over time, and then need to again "escape" to neighborhoods further out. The fact that there are extremely violent neighborhoods in my city, comprised of actual mansions, is testament to the inevitable results of such population relocations.
What they fail to acknowledge, willfully and introspectively, is that they cannot escape themselves. People build great neighborhoods. Period. People destroy great neighborhoods. Period. If they want a pleasant place to live, then all they have to do is create where they currently live. They have to do the hard work, and they have to embody both the family and community standards that are 100% necessary to create such neighborhoods. Then, there is no need to move to a "nicer" area. Property values and the tax base will increase, and new money and business will come into the area. Then, the holy grail: jobs. A community's success and failure begins and ends with the people of the neighborhood, their values, and culture. You cannot relocate away from this, and it is unfair to expect middle class (or even middle lower class) people, in safe neighborhoods, to have to shoulder the community burden of these de facto relocations, as the very practice is antithetical to the very forces that have made the neighborhood desireable and safe to begin with.
Therefore, the ridiculous communist ideals put forth earlier in this thread that middle class people should be expected to shoulder some of the crime and dysfunction, is entirely flawed and straight out of the most insidious ideals of Marx.
People in "good" neighborhoods live in safe neighborhoods because they share the standards and values that create them, standards and values that are in no small part responsbile for their success in general (usually, beginning with poor parents and grandparents who embodied these values) not because they are lucky enough to live on some magical geographic location that will cure the habits of poverty and the readily verifiable and observable statistical criminal impulse of the group that moves there.
There is no "character" interview for section 8 housing. What this program does is export people with statistically verfiable bad civic and cultural habits (which is inevitable due to the randomness of voucher allocation, depite some "good" peope mixed in) to the good neighborhoods, and make them bad. It does not, nor could it ever due to the nature of what it takes to make the good neighborhoods good (values and standards) make people with bad habits successful enough to integrate by virtue of changing thier location in geographic space. Every time, the results will be painfully predictable.
The predictable results are that, given enough government housing / section 8 in a neighborhood, the property values will drop, and the other bad neighborhood residents, even without section 8, will increasingly be able to buy into and take over the neighborhood (encouraged by the presence of their former community members that are already there in the government funded housing). This is not hypothesis, but is precisely what happens. This is what has happened where I live.
Therefore, section 8 / government housing doesn't represent "increased opportunity and mobility", but rather a government funded hostile takeover of a neighborhood that will inevitable deteriorate. Besides, what makes these people entitled to such taxpayer funded "mobility"? Why not everyone? Why not the people who may have had to work, extremely hard and without any help, to move into the middle class neighborhoods where they now desire to place section 8 residents? For the most part, these people had no help, or if they did, their families worked extremely hard and smart to give them a leg up. Why are other excused from this process? Why the special citizenship status? The entire premise of government housing, especially into middle and upper class neighborhoods, is 100% flawed and completely unfair to the other citizens of this country who are expected,a nd whose familes have been expected, to make it on their own and maintaint their economic status by virtue of values and inter-generational hard work. Values and work ethic which, like in all proper self-sustaining ecosystems, sustains the neighborhood ans a desireable place to be.
Poor people can have clean and mowed yards, housing that is upkept by them, and low crime rates. Some poor neighborhoods in my city do, and these poor people are not the ones that apply for government vouchers. They don't ask the government to "make them middle class" because they feel entitled to it, by subsidizing their residency in middle class neighborhoods and their kids attendance in middle class schools. Any group of poor people can have perfectly peaceful and aesthetically pleasing neighborhoods, and all of this is actually the first step to not being poor. The fact that people feel the need to "escape" their dangerous and run-down neighborhoods that they have lived in for so long, for which they play a co-equal part in making them as such, is the precise argument as to why they shouldn't be given such an escape route. People who can successfully integrate in better neighborhoods will not only do their part to make whatever neighborhood that they live in "nice", but are desperately needed in the neighborhoods that they now feel are below them due to their section 8 escape route. So, we're either unjustly exporing the criminals to the better neighborhoods, or exporting the good people that their previous bad neighborhood needs, making the neighborhood worse for the people that live there but don't have the benifit of the section 8 escape route.
What people do in this country, if they are born poor and want upward mobility, is to realize that it is a multi-generational effort that requires much hardship and sacrifice. I know, becasue no I must repeat the process to leave my now-awful neighborhood and assure that my kids won't be subjected to such living conditions. First, you embody a strong sense of civic virtue, family values, and educational ideals in your kids. Then , you make sure that your kids stay out of trouble and do well in school. Be extremely strict. If that means that you need to learn the subject matter yourself so that you can help them with it, then that is exactly what you do. You must lead by example, and not subject your kids to viewing your own bad habits. Eschew alcoholism, drug use, and subjecting them to promiscuous sex either in your own house or in the media. Teach them strict manners. If you are a single mom and you see that there is just no way to make it on a single mom's salary while raising kids, and are stuck where you are as a result, then teach your daughters to not have kids out of wedlock, or to get involved with loser or otherwise unsuccessful fathers that they will diovrce. Or teach them to be more loyal to their husbands, and to avoid divorce. Middle class people FREQUENTLY make sacrifies in the amount of kids that they want to have so that they can afford the lifestyle that they are comfortable with. You are expected to do the exact same thing, and not expect the government and middle class taxpayers to be your baby's daddy just becasue you can't limit yourself or your habits. Your choices are your own, as are the penalties, and it is no-one's problem but your own if you made one too many bad decisions that limits your upward mobility. Maybe your daughter(s) will have better luck, and you should instill the values that will give them a better shot. The same goes for men. Even HUD knows that it's section 8 recipients will, on average, have more kids than do the middle class neighborhoods to which they move. The ratio is backwards, and the people who make the sacrifices are paying the penalty because you do not have the same discipline. If you have no money, then get a certification and work the best job that you can find, and try to leave your kids with something. Anything. If that isn't possible, that's okay, because the personal tools that you have equipped your kids with will help them to do just a little bit better. As long as the process is followed with their kids, then eventually, a family can pull themselves out of lower class hell. Actually, it can be accomplished a lot quicker than in the past due to the very generous federal student loan program, and so your kids, as long as they did well in school, can be very class mobile. The real benefit is, however, if all families in the community did this, then being lower class wouldn't be such hell becasue there would be a strong sense of community: resulting in neighborhood pride, safety, and an infux of business into the community.
But, this process, that is uniquely available to people in the United States of America, isn't good enough. Instead, it's "instant middle class" and instant entitlements to better neighborhoods and local taxpayer funded schools, at the civic and financial expense of others who have worked and whose families have worked to get there. The section 8 relocation scheme doesn't work, it will never work, and it isn't just.
For those who don't know,
You have to be really really poor to qualify for Sec 8 housing.
There is a waiting list a mile long, 10 year wait in most major cities to
actually get a Sect, 8 rental.
Poverty is ugly and depressing.
Has anyone on this forum ever been poor?
Most of all Sec. 8 housing is issued to a parent with minor children.
The more minor children you have, the better chance you are to get
an apartment.
Most Sec. 8 people work at least 1 full time job. Some 2 full time jobs.
So, we should stop all Sec 8 housing, right?
Where are we going to put all these kids?
how are they going to go to school with no address?
Is the State that you live in prepared to house tens of thousands
if not millions of children?
if you loose your shelter, you loose your children.
How many can you personally take in?
Yea, let's pick on poor people.
After all, it's the Christain thing to do, isn't it?
By the way, I am no Christain, just a caring atheist.
And I bet most of you are 3 or 4 paychecks away from
being on the streets yourselves.
"You have to be really really poor to qualify for Sec 8 housing."
What a joke.
Do you honestly believe that gov't programs aren't scammed?
Sec 8 housing helped a friend of mine after she and her son were abandoned by her alcoholic ex husband. This program has helped far more people than have abused it. Sec * does not have to be abandoned but more closely regulated.
As with most issues of this type, almost everyone seems to be completely overlooking the truth. In reality, what Section 8 does is keep rents and property values artificially inflated. That's why your average working stiff cannot afford a place to live. Supply & demand, just like everything else. End Section 8 tomorrow, and you know what would happen, "Middle Class America" ? Your property values would be cut in half ! Most of the Section 8 money goes to well-connected big real estate owners, who built, bought, and/or renovated these properties with money from government grants and low-interest/no-interest loans ! In other words, it is actually a gigantic corporate welfare scheme ! And if you are a working stiff trying to find a home or apartment to rent, that is what you are up against, unless you are one of the chosen few who have a Section 8 certificate. For example, $1450./month (for a dump) seems to be the going rate, that must be the current limit in this area, I guess. But even IF you decide that MAYBE you might be able to swing it, the landlord is likely to be thinking, well, nice family, steady working guy, etc. But you might somehow lose your job, and then what ? So, the prospective tenant with the guaranteed rent money from the USA gets the place. Section 8 is the REAL Real Estate Bubble, don't kid yourself. If you own your own home, well, good for you, if you think of it as YOUR HOME, and not so much as a pile of "equity" money that will make you wealthy. Because if this bubble does ever get popped, well, let me put it this way : Be careful what you wish for !
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What is Section 8 REALLY designed to do ?
