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So, what is the line of all the crazy things people are having to get teh shot for, or else? What's the thing that will push you to say: "Okay, this just isn't right?"
The line for me is if the government forces you to get the shot. In that case, I’m on your side.
Yea, but this is just dropped on them like that. And, no formal decision in writing, but one in practice. For an experimental medicine that still doesn't keep you from catching or passing it. And, vaccinated people die from covid too
If the patient takes the vaccine right before the transplant and is also taking whatever anti-rejection immunosuppressive drugs....who knows what will happen to these people. There are no studies. They have no idea if the vaccine will even work on them given the drugs they are taking. It could harm them. The doctors are just speculating, heavily influenced by their bias in favor of these vaccines. This sounds punitive.
When they deny a transplant to someone who relapses into alcoholism, that is because the have actual data to back up their decision.
Also, if someone needs a new heart, and they take a Covid shot that can damage their already damaged heart...how is this logical? They could die from the vaccine before ever getting the new heart.
We do quite a bit of organ transplants in my OR, so I am quite well versed in the protocols. There could be special circumstances where a current smoker, drug abuser, or alcohol abuser gets an organ, but then, this guy might end up in a special circumstance too, just like them.
Regardless of what you think, they are not doing this out of spite. Like I said, if there were more organs than people who need them, this guy would be getting his transplant. But there aren’t, so the organs that are available have to be used in the most efficient way.
Again, it's always interesting that when it comes to medical issues you end up always trying to explain reality and rationality to your fellow conservatives while it's the "leftists" who are on board with you.
The reasoning for the vaccine is crystal clear in these transplant cases is crystal clear. As you have so patiently explained.
I guess they don't get that the likelihood of an immunosuppressed post transplant patient getting COVID and having an outcome of death or severe illness is off the charts compared to just about any other cohort out there.
Without the vaccine these people are not likely to live long enough to grow that third eye or grow hair on their nose or whatever mutations the vaccine might cause over time.
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"I don't understand. But I don't care, so it works out."
(set 14 days ago)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ringwise
So the doctor is doing something that is guaranteed to cause their death, because they won't comply with an order that will force them to take a non-FDA approved vaccine that might harm them, in the hopes that it prevents a virus that they may or may not contract.
You've got it backwards.
The doctor is not doing something to guarantee their death. They're dying, and the doctor is not using a very scarce resource that others also need to save their lives, to save this one who is less likely than others to benefit from receiving the organ.
Giving a scarce lifeboat from a sinking ship to someone who is likely to jump off it.
Status:
"I don't understand. But I don't care, so it works out."
(set 14 days ago)
35,653 posts, read 18,015,765 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arya Stark
This is why I believe many of the covid deaths were killed by the doctors and nurses. They like playing god and the vaccine gives them the excuse now.
This statement makes me really angry. I have a family member, a young woman in her 20's, beautiful, energetic, lovely, who is an ICU nurse. When this pandemic first began, and we really knew so little, there she was, at the front lines, willing to intubate patients who needed it.
When you intubate someone, you are completely up close and personal in their respiratory system, and you get their saliva and mucous all over yourself, no matter how hard you try to practice safety protocols. It's inevitable. You're intubating someone with severe covid, and they're gagging and coughing and sneezing on you during the process where your face and theirs are inches apart.
She did this, day after day. Knowing she would likely catch this disease, and not having any idea how deadly it might be.
So yeah. I think of her when I read this nasty post.
Well, unless we have all been "misinformed" AGAIN, the vaccinated are in just as much danger as getting infected as the vaccinated. As I understand it, it is just that the chances of getting seriously sick or dying are less, right?
WHY are they so intent on getting everyone vaccinated for a virus with really less than a 1% chance of dying?
However, another poster in another thread asked about the rate and "seriousness" of long-haulers, but I did not see that question answered, as far as how many people are still greatly suffering many months after being released by the hospital. Does anyone know about that? (That might be why the government is pushing vaccination so hard.)
I don't think you can really apply general-population statistics to organ-transplant patients. These patients are a special case, since they will need to take anti-rejection drugs which are immunosuppressive.
So they're mandating a vax with known side effects including an extreme immune system response to a transplant patient where a new foreign organ will create an intense immune system response. So the patient's body will be busy rejecting the vax and new heart. How's that going to end.
But pc hospital administrators and/or health system management in Seattle are prioritizing political appearances and not their patients.
This statement makes me really angry. I have a family member, a young woman in her 20's, beautiful, energetic, lovely, who is an ICU nurse. When this pandemic first began, and we really knew so little, there she was, at the front lines, willing to intubate patients who needed it.
When you intubate someone, you are completely up close and personal in their respiratory system, and you get their saliva and mucous all over yourself, no matter how hard you try to practice safety protocols. It's inevitable. You're intubating someone with severe covid, and they're gagging and coughing and sneezing on you during the process where your face and theirs are inches apart.
She did this, day after day. Knowing she would likely catch this disease, and not having any idea how deadly it might be.
So yeah. I think of her when I read this nasty post.
Which is why sometimes I think we as human beings don't deserve nice things.
Many doctors did not even see patients at the beginning of the pandemic, they just did not want to deal with it. For the exhausted nurses and doctors who are in the front line, they get to be called murderer? How about we try to live in a society without medical professionals for one damn day and see what happens.
So if a heart transplant candidate refuses to stop eating unhealthy food does that count as grounds to deny? What about a liver transplant candidate whose condition was caused by alcohol problems? If medical treatment is refused based on covid vaccine grounds, it needs to be denied for many other situations.
It is, all the time. I knew someone on a transplant list who was ineligible until he was no longer using heroin. Why potentially waste the organ on someone who won’t likely make good use of it?
I'm not sure how I feel about it, but I would not feel very comfortable putting the patient on the immunosuppressant anti-rejection drugs they need, and sending them out into the world with COVID around.
If you give them the organ, and they die of COVID, which is a very real possibility considering their current health status, that is like wasting an organ that could have saved someone else.
Decisions like this are usually not so simple. I'm glad I am not the one making them.
You get it. People who don't have a medical background will have a hard time understanding the medical complexities that go along with any transplant. I think you're spot on about this. There are so many people waiting for organs. It's not an entitlement, It's a gift.
Covid on top of a transplant? Definitely a recipe for disaster.
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