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Old 09-08-2021, 02:50 PM
 
1,830 posts, read 1,344,937 times
Reputation: 2986

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisC View Post
Might make cooking a little hard. Of course, they probably don't cook there. The government does it for them.



You shouldn't make light of personal liberty. Not everyone wishes to be a slave to the state as you do.
I think the sentiments shared by you, kmom2, and others regarding limits to personal freedoms illustrates clearly how the US and Australia/NZ diverged historically in their approach to being ruled (and abused) by colonial Britain.

It seems the passage of time has little changed things.
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Old 09-08-2021, 02:53 PM
 
Location: Top of the South, NZ
22,216 posts, read 21,513,411 times
Reputation: 7608
Quote:
Originally Posted by mingna View Post
So from what I can gather over on the Oz & NZ forum, these countries are going on a hard lockdown until they can acquire enough vaccines to get their populations vaccinated to acceptable levels. Of course this is done with expectation that vaccination leads to lower COVID-19 fatalities.


What are the acceptable conditions for how long the populace is willing to be sealed (and maybe re-sealed) off from the world?

Is vaccination status of the populace the determining factor for when the country opens? Or will it be infection rate post-vaccination? Or will it be the number hospitable beds occupied? Or will it be the fatality rate?
Speaking for NZ, Auckland is in level 4, which means only essential work, and leaving home restricted to supermarkets , exercise etc.

Rest of the country is now in level 2, which encourages those who can work from home to do so, restrictions on indoor gathering to 50 people, and masks for indoor public spaces.

The country has been fairly compliant with the restrictions, as there does seem to be some logic to the policy, but I suspect that another national lockdown at level 4, may start to see things unravel somewhat.

Not sure what the plan is from here, and suspect the government will be playing it by ear.
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Old 09-08-2021, 02:55 PM
 
Location: NY
5,209 posts, read 1,780,456 times
Reputation: 3423
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterbeard View Post
As of today, Sweden has had 14,682 deaths from COVID in a population of 10.3 million.

NZ has had 27 deaths out of a 5.1 million population.

I'd rather ask Sweden why they didn't go down the NZ approach?
Why would you only use Covid deaths as a metric of success? And why only use a limited snapshot of time? NZ may doom themselves to being a permanent biosecurity hermit nation, killing the entire tourism sector of the economy. Meanwhile Sweden will be a normal free nation.


NZ has largely avoided the pandemic, due to their location, timing, and border control. It would be best to judge them once the pandemic has set in (and it will). You'd have to measure all deaths, over the course of the entire pandemic --which is about 2 years from community spread to the virus becoming endemic. We'll see how NZ does compared to Sweden at that point in time.
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Old 09-09-2021, 12:52 AM
 
36 posts, read 20,618 times
Reputation: 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by paracord View Post
I think New Zealand has officially taken over as the top Nanny State in the free world.

Holy crap.

This is the same country that goes into national lockdown if ONE CASE of China Virus is found. They are the same country that basically stripped all gun rights from its people after the mass shooting a couple years ago.

I guess the freedom of their citizens depends on the whims of rogue states like China releasing viruses or nutcases stabbing or shooting people?

Surely even the liberals and staunchest supporters of government crackdowns on freedoms here understand that this is ridiculous?

https://thehill.com/policy/internati...fter-terrorist
NZ part of the free world? That part I disagree with.... everything else I agree with you. That said Australia isn’t too far behind and the UK banned knives altogether after their stabbers go crazy.
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Old 09-09-2021, 12:56 AM
 
36 posts, read 20,618 times
Reputation: 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by antinimby View Post
They have squashed nothing. The virus will be back and then another lockdown. Repeat and rinse.

And furthermore, it’s easy to contain a virus when you are a bunch of islands far away from most of the world with no dumb president Biden opening the borders allowing millions to just walk in, then flying them all over your country.
The virus IS back and so are the lockdowns. that said I’m quite enjoying it as I’m getting paid to do nothing but talk **** on here .

I’d also like to pint out that freedom has taken a bit hit in NZ courtesy of what happened 2 years ago. However the decision to take knives off shelves was from a private company and not the govt.

But I will say that NZ is not very free country.
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Old 09-09-2021, 01:01 AM
 
36 posts, read 20,618 times
Reputation: 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jandrew5 View Post
Lol why are you screaming? So I guess you admit I'm right since you added absolutely zero substance.



New Zealand is closer to normalcy than most anyone else. Island nation or not, they take the coronavirus serious and aren't beating each other up on airplanes and shooting each other over masks. That is the American way.

Why do you, as an American, care about their lockdowns, when they dont care themselves? No one in New Zealand is screaming about muh freedoms, and no one is making you go sit in New Zealand.

New Zealand lives rent free here.
Trust me lots of ppl here aren’t happy.... but I’m happy as firstly I get to be paid to play video games... secondly I get to hear ppl whine about losing their freedoms as a result of COVID... um we lost our freedom LONG before COVID.
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Old 09-09-2021, 01:17 AM
 
23,177 posts, read 12,072,737 times
Reputation: 29347
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jandrew5 View Post
Is that why New Zealand is ranked top 10 in quality of life while the US is not top 15?
Is that why New Zealand is ranked higher than the US in human development index?

Is that why New Zealand ranks higher than the US in education, health, and crime?
Is that why New Zealand ranks 7th on the prosperity index while the US ranks 18th?

Is that why New Zealand is 10th in personal freedom while the US is 22nd?

Awesome, we can let Nanny Zealand be responsible for vaccinating the Third World. And they can be responsible for providing the money for developing nations to build up their infrastructure, reduce their carbon emissions, and recover from natural disasters.
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Old 09-09-2021, 01:27 AM
 
Location: Stillwater, Oklahoma
30,976 posts, read 21,504,251 times
Reputation: 9675
Quote:
Originally Posted by paracord View Post
I think New Zealand has officially taken over as the top Nanny State in the free world.

Holy crap.

This is the same country that goes into national lockdown if ONE CASE of China Virus is found. They are the same country that basically stripped all gun rights from its people after the mass shooting a couple years ago.

I guess the freedom of their citizens depends on the whims of rogue states like China releasing viruses or nutcases stabbing or shooting people?

Surely even the liberals and staunchest supporters of government crackdowns on freedoms here understand that this is ridiculous?

https://thehill.com/policy/internati...fter-terrorist
So to you New Zealanders need to have the good sense enough to start arming themselves with knives to stab back at the people who stab them?
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Old 09-09-2021, 01:34 AM
 
Location: Stillwater, Oklahoma
30,976 posts, read 21,504,251 times
Reputation: 9675
Quote:
Originally Posted by paracord View Post
"Collectivism" has been the downfall of many a society.

It is against human nature and breeds corruption.
So, paracord, do you quite passionately want all insurance to be abolished for the good of society?
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Old 09-09-2021, 01:58 AM
 
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
10,904 posts, read 5,877,981 times
Reputation: 5628
Quote:
Originally Posted by mingna View Post
Not kmom, but a mom nevertheless, so I’m going to provide my $0.02

I’m pissed because my last batch of NZ kiwis was just awful — hard and sour ( like its people?) And don’t even get me started on the overpriced under flavored King Ora salmon I last ate. Just kidding both were delicious as expected

Good to hear of a native insider’s perspective on all this, especially regarding the logic behind the semi-auto rifle ban in your country.

I think this extremely low tolerance and tight control on COVID infections numbers will cost NZ more in the long run (economically, psychologically, maybe even socially) than any benefits gained. A lot will depend on how long it will be continued at this level, but it doesn’t seem sustainable to me.

Is there a reason NZ didn’t opt for a Sweden-style approach? Is it due to limitations in the healthcare system? Demographics?
This is my thinking too. The delta variant is just too infectious to try to isolate from. It will simply cost too much in the long run. It worked for the alpha variant though.

Why not the Sweden-style approach? I don't know. Nanny State comes to mind. Mind you, no one wants our friends and relatives to die. Besides that, the cost to the economy for that approach may be even higher, or at least it would have been with the alpha variant. With delta I have my doubts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterbeard View Post
As of today, Sweden has had 14,682 deaths from COVID in a population of 10.3 million.

NZ has had 27 deaths out of a 5.1 million population.

I'd rather ask Sweden why they didn't go down the NZ approach?
Looking at it that way, I would agree. Thing is though, it may not have been possible for Sweden to go our route.
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