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Terrible! Who signed off on this? Will there be any consequences?
War is ugly, inexact science, and innocents die.
As I read a few messages, I can see political inclination of some of the commenters. They use the situation as an opportunity to say how bad the president is or past presidents were and how bad the "other" political party is.
Well, everything that has been said of this president and past presidents and of a political party applies to most presidents and both major parties in some form or another; read history.
My comment is that the incident is horrible. But if you read history, those things have happened before AND will happen again. That is an ugly side of war. Often, attacks happened with the information available. Sometimes, that information is faulty. At others, people convince themselves that that is the right information because of the pressure from politicians, commanders, and on and on. Keep in mind that there is such a thing as friendly fire where soldiers of the same army were killed by mistake.
In other words, we are human and we are not perfect. If something had happened to my loved ones because of war, of course, I would be extremely mad and hurt. That is a human reaction. I am upset but I was not affected. Because I am not affected, I am able to see things with more objectivity.
Did someone give the wrong coordinates? Or did someone get the wrong information and that is what was used in the coordinates.
In some cases, people do become callous after constant combat experience. Also, there is such a thing called PTSD. Keep in mind that anger is a human trait. You see your buddies being killed and it affects you. Also, some see the when the enemy fights unfairly and decide to do the same. I can go on and on.
Again, war produces constant confusing situations in the heat of battle. In some cases, in order to keep sanity, often people see the enemy as less than human. To me it is something like when doctors display a lackadaisical mode as they are under pressure. That is a way to keep calmed and collected whereas others see it as uncaring.
I was a soldier for 32 years, and believe me that soldiers in general do not like war. I was extremely lucky that I did not have to make a decision that resulted in such dire consequences. But I have talked to soldiers that have had to deal with their decisions, not funny or nice.
I suppose that at best, we have to be able to accept the mistake, do the best we can to make-up for it, and go on with this ugly business. Hopefully, I doubt it though, sometime in the future we do not have to resort to war to settle issues between nations.
Will there be consequences? I am sure there will be in some form or another. Often, I had to write after action reports. Will the report be written to make it look that it was a human mistake so no one pays the consequences? That is very possible. If the Army fired or imprisoned everybody for every mistake in war, the efficiency will diminish and maybe the war would last longer. Also, many would be hesitant to make decisions in battle for fear of personal consequences.
You have a great day.
elamigo
Last edited by elamigo; 09-18-2021 at 06:41 AM..
Reason: To provide extra comments.
It's not Biden's fault. I heard the Trump loyalists in the intelligence community gave Biden intentionally wrong information to make him look bad. Deep state strikes again!
One can only assume this was sarcasm since the "Trump loyalists in the intelligence community", all six of them, were purged.
Quote:
Originally Posted by elamigo
War is ugly, inexact science, and innocents die.
War is ugly and innocents do die, but it seems pretty obvious that this drone strike was designed purely to look tough and distract from the murder of the U.S. military personnel. This was a "hurry up and do something" operation. I doubt they would have admitted the error had it not been reported by other sources.
Quote:
Originally Posted by elamigo
As I read a few messages, I can see political inclination of some of the commenters. They use the situation as an opportunity to say how bad the president is or past presidents were and how bad the "other" political party is.
Did you see the same "political inclination" of the national news media on every story written about Trump since 2016?
Quote:
Originally Posted by elamigo
Well, everything that has been said of this president and past presidents and of a political party applies to most presidents and both major parties in some form or another; read history.
Now who is showing a "political inclination" trying to excuse current debacles by saying, "well they all have debacles so let's not hold individuals responsible."
[quote=elamigo;61938797My comment is that the incident is horrible. But....[/quote]
No, no, NO! There is NO BUT. A hurried operation WITHOUT confirmation is inexcusable, so STOP MAKING EXCUSES for "your guys".
Quote:
Originally Posted by elamigo
if you read history, those things have happened before AND will happen again. That is an ugly side of war. Often, attacks happened with the information available.
I've read more history than you can imagine. The reason we didn't have GOOD INFORMATION is because the Biden Administration destroyed the pipeline of information. All the people who might have helped or informed the CIA or INSCOM had to go underground because the Taliban now controlled Kabul. You can't let the current administration destroy on the ground intelligence and then blame a debacle on the lack of n the ground intelligence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by elamigo
Sometimes, that information is faulty. At others, people convince themselves that that is the right information because of the pressure from politicians, commanders, and on and on. Keep in mind that there is such a thing as friendly fire where soldiers of the same army were killed by mistake.
Friendly fire is a complete red herring in this situation. Saying that people believed the information because they wanted to is even worse. You don't advance intelligence on a drone strike in a city because you WANT to believe it, you advance the intelligence because you've confirmed it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by elamigo
In other words, we are human and we are not perfect.
Did you advance such grace to Donald Trump and his family?
Quote:
Originally Posted by elamigo
If something had happened to my loved ones because of war, of course, I would be extremely mad and hurt. That is a human reaction. I am upset but I was not affected. Because I am not affected, I am able to see things with more objectivity.
You think you are seeing things objectively? How does someone see SEVEN CHILDREN slaughtered and say, "meh it happens" and you think that is "objectivity"?
Quote:
Originally Posted by elamigo
Did someone give the wrong coordinates? Or did someone get the wrong information and that is what was used in the coordinates. In some cases, people do become callous after constant combat experience..............
Sorry, I just can't go on for your litany of excuses.... PTSD, wrong coordinates, wind blew the missile off course, the sun was in the eyes of the drone operator....
Quote:
Originally Posted by elamigo
Will there be consequences? I am sure there will be in some form or another.
There will be ZERO consequences for Biden, Milley and Austin. Maybe an O1 or O2 will be rebuked and reassigned, but the ones most culpable never will be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by elamigo
Often, I had to write after action reports. Will the report be written to make it look that it was a human mistake so no one pays the consequences? That is very possible. If the Army fired or imprisoned everybody for every mistake in war, the efficiency will diminish and maybe the war would last longer. Also, many would be hesitant to make decisions in battle for fear of personal consequences.
The U.S. Army prosecuted a Major for killing an actual bomb maker, not an aid worker and 9 others. Where was that philosophy then? Or in the Clint Lorrance case. Give me a freakin' break.
**BREAKING** No ISIS-K killed in drone strike. All civilians, seven of whom are children.
Have there been ANY programs Joe Biden was involved with, that didn't turn into complete disasters?
I doubt if it is Biden's fault that the intelligence said he was a terrorist threat. What was Biden's fault is that he was desperate to have a quick response.
I doubt if it is Biden's fault that the intelligence said he was a terrorist threat. What was Biden's fault is that he was desperate to have a quick response.
Of course he was. And some will claim it's because that's what republicans wanted "in return" for the terrorist attack at Kabul airport.
It's not Biden's fault. I heard the Trump loyalists in the intelligence community gave Biden intentionally wrong information to make him look bad. Deep state strikes again!
You obviously have no idea how the intel community works. It has to be received and verified multiple times.
Biden making the call for this to happen is completely on his head. If a military member makes the wrong call in an instance like this, they can get into some very serious trouble.
There has been a lot of civilian collateral damage in basically every war that has ever gone on by every country in the history of our species. This includes our meddling in the middle east, for oil, for Israel, to try to nation build. I'm not here to debate whether it was a good idea to meddle over there in the first place, I'm here to say a few civilian casualties is nothing new or special in the history of war. Past presidents have lobbed a few bombs claiming to take out some insurgents when it likely included civilian collateral damage. I don't believe this is a reason to impeach Biden, and I think it would be political suicide to try.
Just think of all the new terrorists being created on just this one hit
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