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Many LGBT+ groups accepted NAMBLA as another normal LGBT+ group since the 70's (NAMBLA openly participating in many city sponsored pride parades), but some mainstream groups began to shy away in the late 90's when two NAMBLA members lured, gang raped, then murdered a 12 year old boy in 1997.
Your own references belie your conclusion. The rape/murder happened in 1997, but your first article about gay groups shying away from NAMBLA was from 1994.
Your own references belie your conclusion. The rape/murder happened in 1997, but your first article about gay groups shying away from NAMBLA was from 1994.
Not at all, but I could have worded it better.
They began to shy away in the mid 90's, but by the late 90's (1997) the rape/murder of a boy by two admitted NAMBLA members is when most LGBT+ groups stopped public associations with NAMBLA.
There was leftist and even celebrity support of NAMBLA for years.
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Support
Allen Ginsberg, poet and father of the Beat Generation, was an affiliated member of NAMBLA. Claiming to have joined the organization "in defense of free speech",[26] Ginsberg said: "Attacks on NAMBLA stink of politics, witchhunting for profit, humorlessness, vanity, anger and ignorance ... I'm a member of NAMBLA because I love boys too—everybody does, who has a little humanity".[27] He appeared in Chicken Hawk: Men Who Love Boys, produced and directed by Adi Sideman, a documentary in which members of NAMBLA gave interviews and presented defenses of the organization.[28]
Pat Califia argued that politics played an important role in the gay community's rejection of NAMBLA.[29] Califia has since withdrawn much of his earlier support for the association while still maintaining that discussing an issue does not constitute criminal activity.[30]
Camille Paglia, feminist academic and social critic, signed a manifesto supporting the group in 1993.[31][32] In 1994, Paglia supported lowering the legal age of consent to fourteen. She noted in a 1995 interview with pro-pedophile activist Bill Andriette "I fail to see what is wrong with erotic fondling with any age."[33][34] In a 1997 Salon column, Paglia expressed the view that male pedophilia correlates with the heights of a civilization, stating "I have repeatedly protested the lynch-mob hysteria that dogs the issue of man-boy love. In Sexual Personae, I argued that male pedophilia is intricately intertwined with the cardinal moments of Western civilization."[32] Paglia noted in several interviews, as well as Sexual Personae, that she supports the legalization of certain forms of child pornography.[35][36][33] She later had a change of heart on the matter. In an interview for Radio New Zealand's Saturday Morning show, conducted on April 28, 2018 by Kim Hill, Paglia was asked, "Are you a libertarian on the issue of pedophilia?", to which she replied, "In terms of the present day, I think it's absolutely impossible to think we could reproduce the Athenian code of pedophilia, of boy-love, that was central to culture at that time. ... We must protect children, and I feel that very very strongly. The age of consent for sexual interactions between a boy and an older man is obviously disputed, at what point that should be. I used to think that fourteen (the way it is in some places in the world) was adequate. I no longer think that. I think young people need greater protection than that. ... This is one of those areas that we must confine to the realm of imagination and the history of the arts."[37]
The murdered boys parents sued NAMBLA, but the ACLU defended NAMBLA (pro bono!) and was able to win the case against the grieving parents.
It was known by anybody that looked at NAMBLA that it was not just a simple age of consent advocacy group, but something much darker and downright evil, so many LGBT+ groups looked at NAMBLA closer and backed away from their open support of this little boy rapey cult when Jeffrey Curley was murdered..
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NAMBLA is “not just publishing material that says it’s OK to have sex with children and advocating changing the law,” says Larry Frisoli, a Cambridge attorney who is arguing the Curleys case in federal court. NAMBLA, he says, “is actively training their members how to rape children and get away with it. They distribute child pornography and trade live children among NAMBLA members with the purpose of having sex with them.”
Frisoli cites a NAMBLA publication he calls “The Rape and Escape Manual.” Its actual title is “The Survival Manual: The Man’s Guide to Staying Alive in Man-Boy Sexual Relationships.”
“Its chapters explain how to build relationships with children,” Frisoli tells me. “How to gain the confidence of children’s parents. Where to go to have sex with children so as not to get caught…There is advice, if one gets caught, on when to leave America and how to rip off credit card companies to get cash to finance your flight. It’s pretty detailed.”
“In his diary, Jaynes said he had reservations about having sex with children until he discovered NAMBLA,” Frisoli continues. “It’s in his diary in 1996, around the time he joined NAMBLA, one year before the death of Jeffrey Curley.”
The problem is that you are missing the point that a line is drawn when it comes to children. No normal gay or straight person approves of pedophiles and would be allies in beating thr crap out of anyone advocating for legalizing it.
Barring consenting adults from wanting to be with one another because people consider it “immoral” is just theocratic fascism.
I don’t care if my neighbor is a dude who brings home a dude. It’s none of my business. I don’t sre if my neighbors downstairs wanna have 3 women in bed. It’s none of my business.
So long as it’s consensual and they’re all adults.
That line in the sand is always being pushed further back though...history proves this!
If someone back in the 50s or 60s had made a porn video that is common today, chances are, people would be calling for their arrest, it would reach the point of being criminal.
Look at porn that is popular today...'teens, barely legal, etc'....its pretty clear what direction they are pushing that line!
Its interesting to me, that somewhat recently, people were making the same kinds of comments about regular homosexual people too! (1970s up to the early 90s).
In my opinion, it was entertainment (TV, movies, etc) that sort of acclimated the public to homosexuality and made it tolerable, then accepted, and now celebrated.
The sexual revolution is not just going to stop at homosexuality...people will always be on the fringe, trying to get the next thing accepted by the public...I see it all the time in TV and movies today. Look at porn for a great example....what was 'hard core' 20 yrs ago is TAME compared to todays hard core porn...what do you think this kind of porn will look like 20 yrs from now?!!! I dont even want to know! Todays hard core porn would have been criminal decades ago...and likewise, tomorrows porn, would be illegal today probably.
Add to that the changes that used to take place over 20 or more years in society now come to pass in a few short years.
As you mentioned TV, movies, and the like are major forces in this "normalization" in influencing the changes.
The problem is that you are missing the point that a line is drawn when it comes to children. No normal gay or straight person approves of pedophiles and would be allies in beating thr crap out of anyone advocating for legalizing it.
Barring consenting adults from wanting to be with one another because people consider it “immoral” is just theocratic fascism.
I don’t care if my neighbor is a dude who brings home a dude. It’s none of my business. I don’t sre if my neighbors downstairs wanna have 3 women in bed. It’s none of my business.
So long as it’s consensual and they’re all adults.
Most people recognize this and yes, it is the involved parties business.
The line crosses on that when society is pushed to that being part of the norm when it is not.
Taking others along for the ride is not right to have your behavior get a "stamp of approval".
The line is also crossed as far as children are concerned when we have drag queens reading story time to children.
That is nothing short of indoctrinating children into their choices.
No. LGBTQ is about 2 CONSENTING ADULTS that chose to be together regardless of sex.
That is kind of true, but not entirely. The LGBTQ+++ community is surely in favor any number of consenting adults getting together at the same. Just try and tell them 12 guys can't have sex with each other at the same time and you'll be accused of being a homophobic bigot (or being frigid, or a closet case, or some other disparaging thing).
Do they favor plural marriage? Do they favor incest?
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Originally Posted by ELOrocks17
But allowing a 7 year old to decide to have their genitals cut off is perfectly fine, if you dare say no-the UN human rights commission will get involved.
7 is maybe an extreme example, but what about 12? Or 17? Should a 17 year old be able to have sex reassignment surgery? Should a 12 year old be able to decide on their own to take puberty blocking drugs?
Under the theory that children do not have fully developed brains and cannot therefore consent to sex with an adult, why would the theory be any different on trans issues?
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Originally Posted by InfoDumper3000
The problem is that you are missing the point that a line is drawn when it comes to children.
No, the problem is that you are missing the point that a line is NOT drawn when it comes to children in other areas of their sexuality. A 13 year old girl in California can walk into any abortion clinic and terminate a pregnancy. Parents do not have to give consent or even be informed. A 13 year old boy can't get an aspirin from the school nurse without his parents being informed and giving their consent.
With the 13 year old girl, there is no questioning about who got her pregnant and no consequences. In CA it is illegal for ANYONE under 18 to have sex with ANYONE, regardless of age. Do not hold your breath while looking for the last time a female minor was prosecuted for having sex underaged.
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Originally Posted by InfoDumper3000
No normal gay or straight person approves of pedophiles and would be allies in beating thr crap out of anyone advocating for legalizing it.
Not very long ago no normal person approved of homosexuals and would be allies in beating the crap out of anyone advocating for legalizing it.
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Originally Posted by InfoDumper3000
Barring consenting adults from wanting to be with one another because people consider it “immoral” is just theocratic fascism.
So if you disapprove of a 40 year old man having sex with his 20 year old daughter, are you a theocratic fascist?
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Originally Posted by InfoDumper3000
I don’t care if my neighbor is a dude who brings home a dude. It’s none of my business. I don’t sre if my neighbors downstairs wanna have 3 women in bed. It’s none of my business. So long as it’s consensual and they’re all adults.
Do you care if your neighbor is having sex with his 19 year old son? If so, why?
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Originally Posted by FinsterRufus
They aren't included at all, officially or unofficially. The end. That answers your question.
I think the only difference between a Minor Attracted Person (MAP) and a NAMBLA person is that NAMBLA people go to meetings. Look at the language used; "Minor Attracted Person". It is an attempt to soften how it sounds compared to "pervert". People called homosexuals perverts 30 years ago, now to do so is considered a hate crime by a lot of people. These are steps on the path to normalization of the abnormal.
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Originally Posted by FinsterRufus
Everything else is just ridiculous slippery slope rhetoric that has no basis in reality.
No basis in reality? Look at what is happening at middle schools and high schools with supposed "trans" students. A boy who says he is a girl can change and shower in the girls locker room and compete on a girls athletic team. Tell someone you think that is wrong and you are called a bigot, a hater, a troglodyte and worse.
As to how the LGBTQ+++ community really feels about minors, Google "Desmond is Amazing". Check out the videos of this EIGHT year old dancing in gay clubs and at gay pride gatherings.
And NAMBLA loved Cartman. Funniest darn South Park ever.
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Originally Posted by rstevens62
That line in the sand is always being pushed further back though...history proves this!
Yes, line in the sand is always being pushed further and further. Remember that in just 2008 there was NOTHING controversial about Barrack Obama saying he did not support gay marriage and that he supported traditional marriage. How much further has the line been pushed?
Add to that the changes that used to take place over 20 or more years in society now come to pass in a few short years.
As you mentioned TV, movies, and the like are major forces in this "normalization" in influencing the changes.
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