Abortions should be re-named to "killing babies." (drugs, amendment, constitution)

[Floorist]

First of all, birth control is not 100%. My wife had a complete tubal, 11 years before our youngest was born.


And no MAN has a right to tell a woman that she MUST have a baby.

And anti-abortion groups are usually religion based. Religion should be kept out of laws.

Why not make men get fixed? Why is it always on the woman?

[Artisan10]

Originally Posted by ansible90

She did not kill a child. Only prevented one from developing.

Same thing. Preventing a child from developing is killing the child.

[Artisan10]

Originally Posted by emm74

your claim is the one that focuses on your personal beliefs to the exclusion of science. Science doesn't define "baby", it uses zygote, embryo, fetus. So you are the flat earth science denier. And repeating your statement makes it no more true the second time than it was the first.

A zygote, embryo, fetus is a unique individual human being in its earliest stages of development. You were once a zygote, embryo, fetus.

[ansible90]

Originally Posted by Artisan10

Same thing. Preventing a child from developing is killing the child.

Faulty logic. What do you think the birth control pill does?

[hothulamaui]

Originally Posted by Artisan10

A zygote, embryo, fetus is a unique individual human being in its earliest stages of development. You were once a zygote, embryo, fetus.

And the zygote, embryo, fetus does not trump the fully realized woman with the pregnancy. Her wishes trump all else.

[Artisan10]

Originally Posted by kayanne

The bolded part is precisely what it all comes down to. What follows is a post I made on another thread, which unfortunately was closed before anyone had a chance to answer. So I'll repeat myself:

The conflict between pro-life and pro-choice people all boils down to this: When does this entity, this thing/being/cell cluster/blob, that started at the union of a sperm and egg, become a full-fledged human, deserving of all the rights a born, living, breathing human has?

To me, just as a sprouted acorn is not equivalent to an oak tree, a fertilized egg is not equivalent to a human being. No one would look at any sprouted seed and declare "There's a pumpkin!" or "There's a daisy!" because 1) that's not what it IS yet, and 2) no one looking at the sprouted seed can tell what it will one day grow to become. #2 is definitely true with a fertilized human egg (can't tell what it is by looking at it), and I believe #1 is also true (it's not yet a human being with rights.)

Now, some people do believe a fertilized egg is a full-fledged human, but that gets sticky because such people would have to be opposed to many forms of birth control, Plan B, and fertility clinics. (even the pill has a secondary mode of action which is to prevent implantation if an egg is released and fertilized).

So I would ask the OP and other prolifers here to tell me if you believe a fertilized egg = a human being.

BTW, this is not a trick question. I used to be extremely pro-life, I even did volunteer work with Right to Life, so I understand your side. But understanding how you view a fertilized egg will enable me to continue the discussion.

A fertilized human egg = a human being

Just like a fertilized eagle egg = an eagle in its earliest stages of development (and illegal to harm)

Just like a fertilized spotted owl egg = a spotted owl in its earliest stages of development (and illegal to harm)

And if that acorn was instead, a rare plant, like a saguaro cactus, or barrel cactus, it would be protected too.

[Mikala43]

Originally Posted by Artisan10

A fertilized human egg = a human being

Just like a fertilized eagle egg = an eagle in its earliest stages of development (and illegal to harm)

Just like a fertilized spotted owl egg = a spotted owl in its earliest stages of development (and illegal to harm)

Nope, not until humans are put on the endangered species list.

Chickens are plentiful, and we eat balut (partially grown baby chicken in egg).

We eat caviar and all kinds of fertilized fish eggs.

[emm74]

Originally Posted by Artisan10

A zygote, embryo, fetus is a unique individual human being in its earliest stages of development. You were once a zygote, embryo, fetus.

your beliefs are just that, your belief. Not scientific fact, and not a belief you can impose on others.


Don't like abortion? Don't have one. That's it, I will keep repeating that because that is your option. NOT to impose your own opinion on others.

[Artisan10]

Originally Posted by ansible90

Faulty logic. What do you think the birth control pill does?

Which pill? If it prevents pregnancy, no problem.

Pills that kill the baby end someone's life.

[Artisan10]

Originally Posted by emm74

your beliefs are just that, your belief. Not scientific fact, and not a belief you can impose on others.


Don't like abortion? Don't have one. That's it, I will keep repeating that because that is your option. NOT to impose your own opinion on others.

Scientifically, human life begins at fertilization. A person is the same individual, and even has it's own unique, identifiable DNA, from zygote to embryo, to fetus, to newborn, to toddler, to teenager, to adult, to elderly. That human being is the same individual but is just in different stages of development.