Quote:
Originally Posted by Artisan10
A fertilized egg that passes, unimplanted, during the menstrual cycle, is natural. Abortion is an act of violence against another human being.
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Just FYI, it's hard to respond to each point of yours since you responded inside my quote. But I'll do my best to copy/paste your responses and address them. I'll put your responses to my previous post in italics.
Fertility clinics have killed countless human begins. Possibly more than the holocaust. Better to have heartbroken couples than dead babies.
Surely you realize we are talking about a microscopic cell, or a few cells, in a petri dish, right? Are you saying that what is in that petri dish is in every way absolutely equivalent to a newborn baby, or to a child, or adult? If it is truly equivalent in your opinion, then please address this scenario (not my own example; you've probably heard it before):
If you are in a building that houses both a daycare and a fertility clinic, and it catches on fire, would you try to save an armful of petri dishes (which would be, in your eyes, dozens of actual human beings), or go to the daycare and try to carry out one or two little children? Please explain your answer, as I'm truly curious as to your thoughts. Thanks.
The world would be a better place if people valued the lives of others as much as their own. Killing countless human beings is not the answer.
^^That^^ was your response to my question about birth control methods which prevent implantation. Without those methods, most families would have 8, 10, 12 or more children, as in the past. Please elaborate on why this would make for a better world than we currently have.
At least one human individual dies with EVERY abortion.
A mother who is incarcerated for killing her pre-born child is no different than a mother who is incarcerated for killing her child after it's born.
With your definitions, every woman who has been on the pill, IUD, patch, or injections has had an abortion. We deserve jail just as much as any woman who intentionally drowns, shoots, or otherwise kills her already born children. Am I summing up your thoughts correctly? Think of your female friends and family members. I can guarantee that a significant percentage of them have used BC methods which you consider murder. Do you want these female friends and relatives incarcerated for life for murder? Why or why not?
Abortion is not just a "horrible thing". It's the taking the life of a unique, helpless, innocent human individual. It would be better to be born into hardship and have a chance to make a good life than not be born at all.
In countries with the majority of people living with poverty, hunger, illness, etc, you think it is better to force women to continue having babies rather than giving them effective BC which prevents a fertilized egg from implanting? Would YOU want to be born into that environment? I would not.
A newborn is not aware of its environment either but it would be just as wrong to kill it.
A newborn experiences emotions and pain, and does have some awareness of its environment. A fertilized egg has no more consciousness than a pebble.
A fertilized egg that passes, unimplanted, during the menstrual cycle, is natural. Abortion is an act of violence against another human being.
I don't see any difference between a fertilized egg passing naturally (which 30-40% do) versus, for example, having an IUD in place which prevents implantation. Do you think an IUD (or pill, patch, or injection, or even the morning after pill) acts in "violence"?
You said that natural passing is ok, but with human involvement it is not. If a living child dies, it doesn't matter if it died of natural causes or was murdered. That death is TRAGIC and leaves parents and family grieving forever. If a fertilized egg is fully equivalent to a born human child, then every family would be grieving forever for the many children they lost when fertilized eggs passed naturally. Every woman who has ever tried to get pregnant knows that some fertilized eggs (that is, "living babies" in your opinion) have died unborn. As a woman, if I truly considered each and every one of those fertilized eggs to be my children, I couldn't bear the grief of all of those deaths.
It makes no difference if those eggs passed naturally in the menstrual cycle or if my BC caused them to pass. It makes zero sense to consider the ones that passed due to BC as "violent acts of murder" that should be mourned, but say no biggie to the much larger number of "babies" (that is, fertilized eggs) that passed naturally.
As I mentioned before, I used to consider a fertilized egg a human being. "Life begins at conception" was my mantra. I needed to have a distinct starting point for life for my black-and-white way of thinking. But now I know life is much more complicated than what a black-and-white perspective allows. No one ever really gave me reasons, for decades, that challenged my fertilized egg belief. But I eventually realized flaws in my thinking. I think I've given you much to think about, and I hope you will give this post serious consideration.
One last point. Deciding what is "right or wrong" in many scenarios is not clearcut. A guiding principle should be, imo, "What causes the least harm and pain but causes the most benefit and happiness?" I don't see overall increased benefit and happiness in the world you presumably want.
A fertilized egg can never know pain or sadness. It doesn't "want" to be born. It has no opinion or thoughts whatsoever. Harm and pain can happen only to people who are born (or at least, at the gestational point in pregnancy at which pain can be felt, somewhere in the 2nd trimester, at which point I do not support unrestricted abortion).
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