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Old 10-06-2021, 11:23 AM
 
Location: East Lansing, MI
28,353 posts, read 16,379,218 times
Reputation: 10467

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephan A Smith View Post
Seems many countries are now using it with proven clinical results. The FDA is usually behind the curve on these things. This is just one of many articles on many countries using it that I easily found.

COVID deaths plunge after major world city introduces ivermectin

A citywide initiative in Mexico City to prescribe ivermectin to COVID-19 patients resulted in a plunge in hospitalizations and deaths, two studies found.

Hospitalizations were down by as much as 76%, according to research by the Mexican Digital Agency for Public Innovation, Mexico’s Ministry of Health and the Mexican Social Security Institute, according to a TrialSiteNews report highlighted by LifeSiteNews.

Earlier this month, as WND reported, a significant decrease in cases in India coincided with the national health ministry’s promotion of ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine treatments.
Correlation does not equal causation, and that's the least of the issues with the "evidence" contained in that article.

The unarguable reality is that the valid COVID-related trials that have been done on Ivermectin so far have not shown efficacy.

I hope Ivermectin is the magic bullet, I truly do. Hoping doesn't make it so, however.

 
Old 10-06-2021, 11:27 AM
 
Location: East Lansing, MI
28,353 posts, read 16,379,218 times
Reputation: 10467
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenPineTree View Post
1. In a situation like this people don't have the luxury to wait for those.
2. Peer-reviewed means what to you? Which medical papers do you accept as peer-reviewed?
3. All the studies I saw on Ivermectin were peer reviewed and clinically randomized (placebo). What do you mean by the "highest quality" give me your criteria?
In a situation like what, exactly?

Uh, peer-reviewed has an accepted definition in the context of pharma trials (and other scientific settings). You're free to look it up if you like.

Highest quality = most scientifically rigorous. For new drugs, that is accepted to be double-blind, randomized and placebo controlled. The closer the trials get to that methodology, the higher the quality of the data.
 
Old 10-06-2021, 11:56 AM
 
Location: EU
423 posts, read 186,521 times
Reputation: 735
Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan View Post
In a situation like what, exactly?

Uh, peer-reviewed has an accepted definition in the context of pharma trials (and other scientific settings). You're free to look it up if you like.

Highest quality = most scientifically rigorous. For new drugs, that is accepted to be double-blind, randomized and placebo controlled. The closer the trials get to that methodology, the higher the quality of the data.
You're pretty naïve about pharma trials. Remdesivir was approved by the FDA following those "highest quality" trials that were peer-reviewed by Gilead's own people as it turned out. And as it turned out Remdesivir was found to be completely useless in treating Covid-19 by other non-conflict of interest independent trials (WHO's large Solidarity trial for one). Besides being completely useless - and costing $3000/treatment - Remdesivir can also cause fatal liver and kidney failure.

Remember when OxyContin was approved by the FDA as a non-addictive opiate. Fast forward 20 years...
 
Old 10-06-2021, 11:59 AM
 
Location: East Lansing, MI
28,353 posts, read 16,379,218 times
Reputation: 10467
Quote:
Originally Posted by Easternman View Post
You're pretty naïve about pharma trials.
No, I'm not. I have a very close friend that runs drug trials for an international pharma company that is not involved with COVID. We've spoken at length about drug trials over the past 18+ mos.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Easternman View Post
Remdesivir was approved by the FDA according to those "highest quality" trials that were peer-reviewed by Gilead's own people as it turned out. And as it turned out Remdesivir was found to be completely useless in treating Covid-19 by other non-conflict of interest independent trials (WHO's large Solidarity trial for one). Besides being completely useless - and costing $3000/treatment - Remdesivir can also cause fatal liver and kidney failure.

Remember when OxyContin was approved by the FDA as a non-addictive opiate. Fast forward 20 years...
High quality doesn't mean infallible. They're a lot better than anecdotes and retrospective studies, though.

Feel free to actually answer any of my questions that you quoted.
 
Old 10-06-2021, 12:00 PM
 
6,829 posts, read 2,117,145 times
Reputation: 2591
Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan View Post
In a situation like what, exactly?

Uh, peer-reviewed has an accepted definition in the context of pharma trials (and other scientific settings). You're free to look it up if you like.
No, peer-reviewed means it was published in some accepted paper. I think you need to realize the terms you're using.

Quote:
Highest quality = most scientifically rigorous.
You're using vague words. I want precise criteria. Science is about being precise. So lay out your criteria.
 
Old 10-06-2021, 12:03 PM
 
6,829 posts, read 2,117,145 times
Reputation: 2591
Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan View Post

I hope Ivermectin is the magic bullet, I truly do. Hoping doesn't make it so, however.
Ivermectin will never be a magic bullet. It needs to be applied early on (day 1 to 2 of symptom onset and before severe symptoms develop).

But when applied consistently, will help keep the hospitalization rates down, and morgues less busy.
 
Old 10-06-2021, 12:06 PM
 
Location: East Lansing, MI
28,353 posts, read 16,379,218 times
Reputation: 10467
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenPineTree View Post
No, peer-reviewed means it was published in some accepted paper. I think you need to realize the terms you're using.
LMAO! No, that's not what "peer reviewed" means. I'm not the one that needs to understand the terms I'm using.

...The peer-review process subjects an author's scholarly work, research, or ideas to the scrutiny of others who are experts in the same field (peers) and is considered necessary to ensure academic scientific quality...

https://www.usgs.gov/faqs/what-does-...ience_products



Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenPineTree View Post
You're using vague words. I want precise criteria. Science is about being precise. So lay out your criteria.
I have been precise. It's in the part that you edited out of my post when you quoted it, not coincidentally.
 
Old 10-06-2021, 12:08 PM
 
Location: East Lansing, MI
28,353 posts, read 16,379,218 times
Reputation: 10467
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenPineTree View Post
Ivermectin will never be a magic bullet. It needs to be applied early on (day 1 to 2 of symptom onset and before severe symptoms develop).

But when applied consistently, will help keep the hospitalization rates down, and morgues less busy.
Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. That's what folks are currently working to find out.

A proven, inexpensive therapeutic would absolutely be a "magic bullet", IMO. <shrug>
 
Old 10-06-2021, 12:09 PM
 
Location: Suburb of Chicago
31,848 posts, read 17,607,170 times
Reputation: 29385
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel350z View Post
Uh no, it's a fact that we still do not know if Ivermectin is an effective treatment for COVID. Your anecdotes are not evidence for it's effectiveness.
They aren't MY anecdotes, they're the anecdotes of thousands of doctors. And again, in peer-reviewed journals, Ivermectin has been shown to be effective against viruses for years.

You don't trust it and that's fine. Nobody is forcing you to take it. I don't know why you have such a problem with what others are doing. You're vaccinated, aren't you? Trust the science.
 
Old 10-06-2021, 12:10 PM
 
6,829 posts, read 2,117,145 times
Reputation: 2591
Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan View Post
LMAO! No, that's not what "peer reviewed" means. I'm not the one that needs to understand the terms I'm using.
You can laugh, but you're only laughing at yourself since you didn't understand the definition you posted.

Quote:
have been precise. It's in the part that you edited out of my post when you quoted it, not coincidentally.
You consider the three terms

"double-blind"
"randomized"
"placebo controlled"

to be precise? Which Ivermectin studies don't live up to those standards.
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