U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
View Poll Results: Should the United States take military action if China invades Taiwan?
yes 93 43.66%
no 120 56.34%
Voters: 213. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread Start New Thread
 
Old 10-24-2021, 08:07 AM
 
22,654 posts, read 11,925,854 times
Reputation: 11414

Advertisements

How many times must a government agency quickly come out and claim that senile Biden didn't really mean what he just said. His latest gaffe on Taiwan is just one in a long string of these mindfarts.

It is time to 25th amendment Biden.



Quote:
In fact, there was a change. Biden’s definitive statement was a stark departure from America’s decades-old policy of “strategic ambiguity,” the policy of telling neither Beijing nor Taipei what the U.S. would do in the case of imminent conflict.

There are now two causes for concern. First, Biden, as Commander-in-Chief, makes foreign policy. The Constitution does not give that power to Psaki, Price, or Austin. Beijing may wonder—as should Americans and others—if Biden is still in charge.

Second, the instant clarifications undermine deterrence. Biden’s statement was clear and unambiguous, a warning to Beijing. The clarifications, on the other hand, tell China the United States is not committing itself to defend Taiwan.

The walk-back statements could lead Beijing to believe there are disagreements inside the Biden administration and in a crisis, some officials would try to override the President to block an American defense of Taiwan.
https://www.19fortyfive.com/2021/10/...otal-disaster/
Rate this post positively

 
Old 10-24-2021, 08:18 AM
 
9,009 posts, read 5,056,815 times
Reputation: 8171
China isn’t going to risk it.

Their leadership is a hollow fist. Likes to be loud to keep power; knows it would get owned if it tried anything.

The Chinese military would be target practice for the US. They have practically zero real experience.
Rate this post positively
 
Old 10-24-2021, 08:21 AM
Status: "Lets Go Brandon" (set 19 days ago)
 
Location: Florida
8,317 posts, read 6,189,475 times
Reputation: 6088
Japan is getting more and more concerned about the CCP.

The 2021 white paper is even more explicit when it comes to the worsening security situation around Taiwan. Previous white papers had sought to be more circumspect when it came to Taiwan, preferring to simply state that “the overall military balance between China and Taiwan is tilting to China’s favor.”

Today, Tokyo is much more unambiguous. The 2021 defense white paper bluntly asserts that “stabilizing the situation surrounding Taiwan is important for Japan’s security and the stability of the international community,” and stresses that the situation must be closely watched with a “sense of crisis.”


As a result, Japan is quickly moving closer to functional/deployable 6th generation indigenous jet fighters. Recently Japan has converted ships (2) for F35B (vertical lift) operations. Why? the new approach is regional defense, not just Japan's defense.
Rate this post positively
 
Old 10-24-2021, 08:22 AM
 
3,567 posts, read 1,349,018 times
Reputation: 2328
war is very expensive,Biden should know better.
Rate this post positively
 
Old 10-24-2021, 11:06 AM
 
5,061 posts, read 1,448,515 times
Reputation: 7311
Quote:
Originally Posted by mojo101 View Post
war is very expensive,Biden should know better.
You know his puppeteers are TRYING to bust the economy...RIGHT?
Rate this post positively
 
Old 10-24-2021, 12:02 PM
 
5,630 posts, read 4,665,834 times
Reputation: 14280
I lived in Taiwan, 1980-82, as a student in Chinese studies, and did a graduate degree in the field.

I can tell you that Taiwan is not China. They are an island of 23 million mostly ethnic Chinese, mostly descended from colonists from Fujian Province some 350 years ago. Their dialect is close to Fujian dialect.

Taiwan has never been a part of the People's Republic of China. It was occupied and ruled by the Japanese Empire from 1895 to 1945, at which time it was ceded to the Republic of China.

In 1949, thousands of mainlanders including a large army contingent landed on Taiwan's shores and basically ruled the island for several decades, until their children intermarried with Taiwanese and they opened up the electoral system and essentially lost their elite hold on the government.

When I was there, it was still a dictatorship, with Chiang Jingguo (son of Chiang Kai-shek, the ROC leader in the 1920s-40s) in command, but they were just beginning to hold elections and democratize. Today, Taiwan is a modern democracy similar to Japan.

There were rumors that Taiwan had the makings of an atomic bomb; they were said to be engaged in technical exchanges with Israel and South Africa, also crypto-nuclear powers. Taiwan certainly has nuclear reactors and plenty of Ph.D. scientists; it's likely they could put together a bomb in short order if needed.

That is probably why the PRC has politely maintained the fiction of "one China and we'll just wait". Of course China wants Taiwan back; it was part of the Chinese Empire under the Qing Dynasty, as was Tibet and Mongolia and Manchuria. Taiwan has no natural resources, but it does have considerable human resources. Its business leaders actually own many of the factories in China, including Foxconn which manufactures most of Apple's hardware. Taiwan also has the world's largest chipmaker (TSMC). Taiwan, in a curious way, took over China rather than the other way around.

China, probing Taiwan's defenses, is just reminding them not to declare full independence as the Republic of Taiwan, as the Independence movement advocates.

Would China win a war of invasion? It's really not clear. China's navy is growing by leaps and bounds and they could certainly implement a naval and aerial blockade which would destroy Taiwan's economy. They probably could not however launch an invasion of the island, which has been preparing for such an event for over 70 years and has pretty good defensive posture.

Then there is Japan's warning to China to not attack Taiwan. Partly, the Japanese want to maintain freedom of the South China shipping lanes, but also Japan has huge investments in Taiwan, and there is the emotional aspect as well; Japan had Taiwan for 50 years and they still have a bit of a possessive attitude. Lastly, if Taiwan goes, Japan loses its southern defensive flank and China suddenly is based just a couple hundred miles south of Okinawa, not a good scenario for an island country that Japan is as well.

Then there is America's longstanding if unspoken policy that Taiwan must remain free and independent. Even the Biden regime, incompetent and unfocused and dominated by "powers behind the throne", would not be able to withstand the pressure to defend Taiwan.

These baseless claims like "we couldn't even beat the Taliban after 20 years" are simply wrong. In fact, the U.S. beat the original Taliban within a few months, but then committed the mistake of trying to build/buy a stable democracy out of a set of tribes. We also didn't get the cooperation from Pakistan, a strong backer of Taliban.

Once the American people tired of war in Iraq and Afghan, it was just a matter of time before the Americans left, and everyone knew it. The Taliban are just thugs with automatic weapons and Nissan trucks. They can roll into the villages and force them to pay taxes and swear allegiance, burn down the girls' schools and torture/kill the teachers. But they don't own Afghanistan. Sooner or later, the Tajiks, a huge minority, will rise up again, someone (U.S.? Russia?) will arm them, and the place will again be awash in civil war.

Americans are tired of war, tired of defending the free world, and tired of the military-industrial junta that runs the country. But, there are still great adversaries in the world and the sooner we recognize and counter them, the safer we will be.

Is Taiwan the hill we should die on? No, but we must not let them go down without a fight.
Rate this post positively
 
Old 10-24-2021, 12:18 PM
 
9,009 posts, read 5,056,815 times
Reputation: 8171
Quote:
Originally Posted by blisterpeanuts View Post
Americans are tired of war, tired of defending the free world, and tired of the military-industrial junta that runs the country. But, there are still great adversaries in the world and the sooner we recognize and counter them, the safer we will be.

Is Taiwan the hill we should die on? No, but we must not let them go down without a fight.
We totally shouldn't be policing the world...

but on the flip side containing the Chinese is that good fight that we've not had for decades.

If the Chinese will send their own people to "re-education" camps, what do you think they'll do to foreign peoples?

As bad as we might be with our imperialism tinge... China would be far worse for the world. They're racist, self-centered, and see every other nation as inferior to themselves who are the center of the universe.

Until the CCP is removed from power (pending what replaces it), China should be contained.

The risk of a fight with the US is, imo, probably a big enough incentive to contain them... but they need to know it'll be backed up. They cannot risk a loss to the US, it'd be the end of the CCP. However just like NK; pounding their chest at us is a way for the gov to maintain power. As long as they stop there... let them keep stroking themselves.
Rate this post positively
 
Old 10-24-2021, 01:29 PM
 
165 posts, read 39,648 times
Reputation: 160
We are having supply chain issues now, a war with China would make it infinitely worse. Our economy is not prepared for a war with China. We should have been taking steps to decouple our economies long ago. Trump is the only President to even remotely try to address this growing threat.
Rate this post positively
 
Old 10-24-2021, 01:46 PM
 
420 posts, read 90,702 times
Reputation: 205
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordSquidworth View Post
We totally shouldn't be policing the world...

but on the flip side containing the Chinese is that good fight that we've not had for decades.

If the Chinese will send their own people to "re-education" camps, what do you think they'll do to foreign peoples?

As bad as we might be with our imperialism tinge... China would be far worse for the world. They're racist, self-centered, and see every other nation as inferior to themselves who are the center of the universe.

Until the CCP is removed from power (pending what replaces it), China should be contained.

The risk of a fight with the US is, imo, probably a big enough incentive to contain them... but they need to know it'll be backed up. They cannot risk a loss to the US, it'd be the end of the CCP. However just like NK; pounding their chest at us is a way for the gov to maintain power. As long as they stop there... let them keep stroking themselves.
Regarding the highlighted, let us call them items 1 and 2 in that order.

Unless or until item 2 is done, item 1 remains in effect. The US will be the world's policeman. Just like the old saying about nature abhors a vacuum, the political nature is no different. When we removed Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq and most of the political structures that were associated with him, we had to immediately put something else in place. The same thing with what happened in Afghanistan regarding the removal of the Taliban. Same pattern throughout history. When the Romans took over a country, they had a replacement leadership immediately. Socially speaking, the people need political leadership, structures, and institutions. That was how civilizations got started. The CCP knows this and that is why the Party works hard at oppressing alternative political movements such as HK and among the Chinese Muslims, the Sinicization process is underway, notably forcing Mandarin on the population.

The US 'should not' be the world's policeman. The 'should not' implies options. Fine.
  1. We could withdraw from the UN today and live with the world strictly via trade.
  2. We can have a strong military for defense and this military be not designed to be so expeditionary like it is today.
  3. We can still be a nation of immigrants but we must also have an enforced border and immigration policy.
  4. We must have an 'America First' domestic policy because the current foreign affairs forced US to rely on other countries for consumer products, aka 'Made In X-country' instead of 'Made In The USA'.
  5. We must be energy independent and that mean all options including nuclear.

It is not that difficult, even without a PolSci degree, to see how those five high level issues created the US as we are living today. Only when all five items are done can we, in a friendly manner, say F-U to the world.

The problem for US is that China tried something similar and failed. China needs energy so China must rely on the ME. China is effectively a colonial power in Africa in the mold of 19th century European colonialism to the rest of the world. China want the yuan to replace the dollar and the process require increasing financial ties to other countries. China want or even feel the need to replace US as the world's policeman.

So the question must be: Can the US live standalone and still be able to resist China as the world's policeman?
Rate this post positively
 
Old 10-24-2021, 01:56 PM
 
Location: The Piedmont of North Carolina
608 posts, read 166,581 times
Reputation: 563
This poll really doesn't matter much since President Biden already said we would attack China if they went after Taiwan...
Rate this post positively
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2021, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top