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Hmm…a soldier or marine that questions his orders is worthless.
Did you encourage your people to question you?
This veteran would like to know.
Iraq War vet and former commissioned officer (CPT) here.
A field-grade/senior officer with almost 20 years of service like a LTC can absolutely question his orders. He is not a lower enlisted like a SPC or buck sergeant with only a few years under their belts.
Many of the Nazis war criminals were LTC and above, because unlike lower enlisted little people, "i only follow orders" don't cut it at that level
“preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.”
That's the oath. You forget that?
This Constitutionalist and defender of the rights of the individual would like to know.
The problem is the constitution. It is 230+ year old and badly in need of revision. Under the constitution, the US president has the powers of a king and the US Congress has evolved into a corrupt duopoly.
Hmm…a soldier or marine that questions his orders is worthless.
Did you encourage your people to question you?
This veteran would like to know.
Sometimes, when you're a military leader you need to speak up and say things that need to be said in spite of the consequences to youself.
This is what Lt Col Scheller stated in his first video. He demanded accountability for the disaster at the Kabul airport that took the lives of 13 U.S. service men and women, left hundreds of Americans behind and abandoned thousands of Afghans who had worked for the U.S. In that video, Scheller said the U.S. should never have abandoned its most strategic airbase — Bagram. In June, General Milley said the base was not “tactically or operationally necessary” for the U.S. withdrawal. Scheller said, “I’m not saying we’ve got to be in Afghanistan forever. But I am saying: Did any of you throw your rank on the table and say, ‘Hey, it’s a bad idea to evacuate Bagram Airfield, a strategic airbase, before we evacuate everyone?’” Scheller called out General Milley and Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin. He said the American people were upset not because the Marines let people down, but because their leaders did. “People are upset because their senior leaders let them down, and none of them are raising their hands and accepting accountability, or saying, ‘We messed this up,’” Scheller said. No sooner did Scheller post the video than he was relieved of his command of the Advanced Military Training Battalion at Camp Lejeune, N.C. He shortly announced that he was leaving the Marines, three years short of a full pension. At least somebody is listening. Some 130 former generals and other military figures signed a letter calling for the resignation of both Milley and Austin.
I’m betting the Marine Corps is really going to show its a$$ at his special courts martial. When Lt Col Scheller receives his courts martial he'll be judged by a jury of his peers. The prosecution must demonstrate beyond a reasonable doubt that he violated the UCMJ. I'm not a Marine but I am a retired Navy Corpsman that served roughly half of my twenty one year career with Marine Corps combat arms units. While I love the Marine Corps I've witnessed that organization eat it's young like no other branch of the military. Confining Lt Col. Scheller to the brig rather than restricting him to the base was designed to send a message out to all those who dare dissent within the ranks of their beloved 'Corps.
None of these UCMJ violations are the civilian equivalent of a felony, none of the allegations were committed in a combat zone, nor do they warrant sending him to pretrial confinement in the brig.
Article 88 by displaying contempt toward officials,
Article 89 by disrespecting superior commissioned officers
Article 90 by willfully disobeying a superior commissioned officer
Article 92 by dereliction in the performance of his duties and failure to obey an order or regulation
Article 133 by displaying conduct unbecoming an officer and a gentleman.
As stated, no other branch of the military eats it’s young like the Marine Corps. That’s one reason their retention sucks and many Marines are getting out and enlisting in other branches. Army Ranger and Special Forces are loving getting former Marines with discipline, leadership acumen and combat experience and skills.
Everyone in the military knows the regulations preclude military personnel from sharing their opinions publicly. Stu Scheller should have refrained from posting videos on social media when warned and the Marine Corps likely should’ve let him resign and go as quietly as possible. Maybe Scheller has a plan to use his trial to publicize failed policies in Afghanistan OR maybe he’s just a good Marine leader that just had enough of seeing patriotic Americans senselessly KIA and wounded during the two decades war in Afghanistan.
A special court martial may impose any punishment except death, dishonorable discharge, dismissal, confinement for more than 1 year, hard labor without confinement for more than 3 months, forfeiture of pay exceeding two-thirds pay per month, or any forfeiture of pay for more than 1 year.
Scheller has retained a team of civilian attorneys well versed in military law. As I stated before, the prosecution will have to demonstrate to a jury of his peers beyond a reasonable doubt that he's guilty as charged. This has the potential to become a legal three ring circus and embarrassment like the general courts martial of Navy SEAL Senior Chief Eddie Gallagher. This could get interesting.
Last week I watched the testimonies of SECDEF Austin, General Milley and General McKenzie to the Senate. Their lack of candor and accountability is a disgrace.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kell490
Was he ordered to kill unarmed civilians no? He was told not to go on social media and make statements so no he doesn't have the freedom of speech to make videos on social media.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kell490
First of all he wasn't ordered to kill unarmed civilians of course an illegal order like that he doesn't have to follow. He went on social media because he was angry about his leadership's decisions above him. Also there are laws that would allow him to report illegal orders he received up the chain of command.
He also said he doesn't want anything to do with Trump he not a supporter of Trump. He doesn't want any special treatment he fully expects to be released from the military without his retirement. He decided didn't like what he was seeing and wanted out this is how he did it.
It sounds like you have more of an axe to grind with him because he's not a Trump supporter than his actions on social media. By the way, Scheller never lost his right to free speech by serving in the military. But like any American there often consequences for exercising your right to free speech under the First Amendment. The cases of former MLB pitcher and ESPN analyst Curt Schilling as well as numerous government employees and military person who've made politically incorrect statements on social media are good examples.
Last edited by irishcopper; 10-08-2021 at 09:12 AM..
Sometimes, when you're a military leader you need to speak up and say things that need to be said in spite of the consequences to youself.
This is what Lt Col Scheller stated in his first video. He demanded accountability for the disaster at the Kabul airport that took the lives of 13 U.S. service men and women, left hundreds of Americans behind and abandoned thousands of Afghans who had worked for the U.S. In that video, Scheller said the U.S. should never have abandoned its most strategic airbase — Bagram. In June, General Milley said the base was not “tactically or operationally necessary” for the U.S. withdrawal. Scheller said, “I’m not saying we’ve got to be in Afghanistan forever. But I am saying: Did any of you throw your rank on the table and say, ‘Hey, it’s a bad idea to evacuate Bagram Airfield, a strategic airbase, before we evacuate everyone?’” Scheller called out General Milley and Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin. He said the American people were upset not because the Marines let people down, but because their leaders did. “People are upset because their senior leaders let them down, and none of them are raising their hands and accepting accountability, or saying, ‘We messed this up,’” Scheller said. No sooner did Scheller post the video than he was relieved of his command of the Advanced Military Training Battalion at Camp Lejeune, N.C. He shortly announced that he was leaving the Marines, three years short of a full pension. At least somebody is listening. Some 130 former generals and other military figures signed a letter calling for the resignation of both Milley and Austin.
I’m betting the Marine Corps is really going to show its a$$ at his special courts martial. When Lt Col Scheller receives his courts martial he'll be judged by a jury of his peers. The prosecution must demonstrate beyond a reasonable doubt that he violated the UCMJ. I'm not a Marine but I am a retired Navy Corpsman that served roughly half of my twenty one year career with Marine Corps combat arms units. While I love the Marine Corps I've witnessed that organization eat it's young like no other branch of the military. Confining Lt Col. Scheller to the brig rather than restricting him to the base was designed to send a message out to all those who dare dissent within the ranks of their beloved 'Corps.
None of these UCMJ violations are the civilian equivalent of a felony, none of the allegations were committed in a combat zone, nor do they warrant sending him to pretrial confinement in the brig.
Article 88 by displaying contempt toward officials,
Article 89 by disrespecting superior commissioned officers
Article 90 by willfully disobeying a superior commissioned officer
Article 92 by dereliction in the performance of his duties and failure to obey an order or regulation
Article 133 by displaying conduct unbecoming an officer and a gentleman.
As stated, no other branch of the military eats it’s young like the Marine Corps. That’s one reason their retention sucks and many Marines are getting out and enlisting in other branches. Army Ranger and Special Forces are loving getting former Marines with discipline, leadership acumen and combat experience and skills.
Everyone in the military knows the regulations preclude military personnel from sharing their opinions publicly. Stu Scheller should have refrained from posting videos on social media when warned and the Marine Corps likely should’ve let him resign and go as quietly as possible. Maybe Scheller has a plan to use his trial to publicize failed policies in Afghanistan OR maybe he’s just a good Marine leader that just had enough of seeing patriotic Americans senselessly KIA and wounded during the two decades war in Afghanistan.
A special court martial may impose any punishment except death, dishonorable discharge, dismissal, confinement for more than 1 year, hard labor without confinement for more than 3 months, forfeiture of pay exceeding two-thirds pay per month, or any forfeiture of pay for more than 1 year.
Scheller has retained a team of civilian attorneys well versed in military law. As I stated before, the prosecution will have to demonstrate to a jury of his peers beyond a reasonable doubt that he's guilty as charged. This has the potential to become a legal three ring circus and embarrassment like the general courts martial of Navy SEAL Senior Chief Eddie Gallagher. This could get interesting.
Last week I watched the testimonies of SECDEF Austin, General Milley and General McKenzie to the Senate. Their lack of candor and accountability is a disgrace.
It sounds like you have more of an axe to grind with him because he's not a Trump supporter than his actions on social media. By the way, Scheller never lost his right to free speech by serving in the military. But like any American there often consequences for exercising your right to free speech under the First Amendment. The cases of former MLB pitcher and ESPN analyst Curt Schilling as well as numerous government employees and military person who've made politically incorrect statements on social media are good examples.
I don't have any consequences by going on social media and calling the President, or generals fools. Yes he did lose his freedoms when compared to a civilian. I have no axe to grind with him about Trump what I was saying is that Trump supporters are latching on to him and trying to turn him into a political talking point to support Trump.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chief scum
Milley gave input to several books being written, and breaking the chain of command. Where he spoke of his personal power and control over things. And as of yet, has faced no consequences.
Lt. Col. Scheller knew the consequences of his actions and accepted them. And his message wasn't a self serving message. The question is how far they will go with punishment. And how broad will the double standard be.
Being a Lt. Col. is a difficult position, because you are the man in the middle. And actually being in combat with the people you are leading, and have to be answerable to them and answerable to your Generals who sit in D.C., of who it appears in this case as if they are answerable to no one.
You think Regulations apply the same to the nations highest ranking General? Not how the world works life isn't fair.
I am not a fan of "questioning orders" or "what the fcck gen. Mileys did." However, The whole things are so fxxk up unless the US wants "Turkey style" military. Nothing is making sense. How can Miley is fine and Scheller is not?
The Commander in Chief is a moron and the Generals on the Joint Chiefs of Staff are incompetent and inept. He's an American who has a right to speak his mind. Welcome to Communist America.
I am not a fan of "questioning orders" or "what the fcck gen. Mileys did." However, The whole things are so fxxk up unless the US wants "Turkey style" military. Nothing is making sense. How can Miley is fine and Scheller is not?
It was noted. Miley did stay within his role or AOR. You think these folks in DC don’t have legal counsel ? And the calls were not in some dark cave at 2 AM, other staff was present.
Iraq War vet and former commissioned officer (CPT) here.
A field-grade/senior officer with almost 20 years of service like a LTC can absolutely question his orders. He is not a lower enlisted like a SPC or buck sergeant with only a few years under their belts.
Many of the Nazis war criminals were LTC and above, because unlike lower enlisted little people, "i only follow orders" don't cut it at that level
So then one just goes public and not go through proper channels???? Have you lost sight of the mission as well? If you can’t follow the leader, and obey the rules you signed up for - retire yourself from service, then go run your mouth.
Imagine if every soldier spoke their mind or grievance publicly. Our military be the laughing stock of the world. Mutiny in the ranks, pfft. Belize could invade us - and we’d fall for a lack of unity and morale.
So then one just goes public and not go through proper channels???? Have you lost sight of the mission as well? If you can’t follow the leader, and obey the rules you signed up for - retire yourself from service, then go run your mouth.
Imagine if every soldier spoke their mind or grievance publicly. Our military be the laughing stock of the world. Mutiny in the ranks, pfft. Belize could invade us - and we’d fall for a lack of unity and morale.
Scheller wasn’t asking his COL or BG, who is 1-2 level above him in chain of command, to be accountable for cluster in Afghanistan. He was asking all the way to the top of the food chain such Secretary of Defense and Chief of Staff Gen Miley to be accountable.
There is NO PROPER CHANNEL.
Tinytrump, please do tell us your vast experience what is it like being a military officer. I am all ears
Military officers, especially a senior officer like a LTC, are not robots who take orders without questions like a young private in boot camp. There is a reason why OCS and BOLC are “gentleman school” and not boot camp.
It was noted. Miley did stay within his role or AOR. You think these folks in DC don’t have legal counsel ? And the calls were not in some dark cave at 2 AM, other staff was present.
I don't think either calling China or visiting grandma was within his role. The whole thing was so muddy, almost sort of he said, she said. Too bad, we will never find out the fact. BTW, legal counsel, haha, who is going to sue Miley? DoD or the WH?
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