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I worked as the manager of a steel business for the last 27/50 years I worked and owned three others myself. I am aware of a lot more than you think.
I am admittedly not familiar with the steel business, so I welcome any insight you can provide. Are you saying that the guy who sweeps the floors or cleans the restrooms (both honest work - I've done both) deserve the same pay you, a manager, with much more responsibility?
When I grew up to get to the closest McDonald's was a 20 minute round trip in light traffic. Today from that house 4 separate McDonald's not counting a similar increased number of direct competitors are within easy walking distance. And all of those locations are trying to run 24/7 operations.
Any "idiot" might be able to do it, but guess what there are not enough idiots available to staff them all. And the so called idiots have proven that they can do the math.
I guess someone will just have to make it worthy for the brilliant to give up their career or take up the task of "idiots" themselves if they want the human resources to make themselves money.
You're correct. If they're aren't enough people to do a given job for a certain amount of pay, one of two things will happen:
1) The position will be automated, which is happening right now in the fast food industry
2) Pay will be increased
The idiots who can "do the math" have failed to factor in automation. Which is why they're idiots.
You're correct. If they're aren't enough people to do a given job for a certain amount of pay, one of two things will happen:
1) The position will be automated, which is happening right now in the fast food industry
2) Pay will be increased
The idiots who can "do the math" have failed to factor in automation. Which is why they're idiots.
If they were protecting a career from someone else grabbing it perhaps. But since there is no career and employers limit hours to avoid giving benefits thus creating loyalty the so called idiot at any time they wish can move on to someone without the capital or have yet to upgrade their technology.
Meanwhile the so called non idiot employer does not make money for lack thought and investing in human resources.
When I grew up to get to the closest McDonald's was a 20 minute round trip in light traffic. Today from that house 4 separate McDonald's not counting a similar increased number of direct competitors are within easy walking distance. And all of those locations are trying to run 24/7 operations.
Any "idiot" might be able to do it, but guess what there are not enough idiots available to staff them all. And the so called idiots have proven that they can do the math.
I guess someone will just have to make it worthy for the brilliant to give up their career or take up the task of "idiots" themselves if they want the human resources to make themselves money.
We’ll said.
It’s amazing how many jobs are not considered important until the are not being done. These sanctimonious holier-than-thou types need to stay home and cook for themselves.
If they were protecting a career from someone else grabbing it perhaps. But since there is no career and employers limit hours to avoid giving benefits thus creating loyalty the so called idiot at any time they wish can move on to someone without the capital or have yet to upgrade their technology.
Meanwhile the so called non idiot employer does not make money for lack thought and investing in human resources.
Bottom line: Burger flippers are replaceable, either by other people or automation. We've reached the tipping point (about $15-$20 per hour) where it's less expensive to automate burger flipping, so these jobs will simply disappear. It's that simple. I'm not being mean, just stating how it is. When employees demand wages that are more than the cost of automating their positions, there will not be other positions for them to go to. So, they either take the $15 or whatever per hour, or starve. There is no practical business reason to cultivate loyalty for these types of jobs. That's the harsh truth. I admire your compassion, but you're not being realistic. I've done all kinds of jobs that were easily replaceable: farm hand, janitor, pizza delivery, dishwasher, busboy, short-order cook, alarm installation helper, roofing helper, local truck driver, security guard, etc., and I always knew that I was easily replaceable. Even in the more skilled positions I've had: police officer, auto mechanic, etc., I realized I was not as easily replaceable, but still dispensable. Even after becoming a software engineer and now a manager of 100+ engineers, I still realize I am not irreplaceable. Anyone who thinks they are and quits their job because of it is in for a rude awaking.
As an acquaintance of mine, a very successful small business owner who retired in his early 40s as a multi-millionaire, so eloquently put it: "Never compensate employees one penny more than needed to maintain a viable workforce".
Bottom line: Burger flippers are replaceable, either by other people or automation. We've reached the tipping point (about $15-$20 per hour) where it's less expensive to automate burger flipping, so these jobs will simply disappear. It's that simple. I'm not being mean, just stating how it is. When employees demand wages that are more than the cost of automating their positions, there will not be other positions for them to go to. So, they either take the $15 or whatever per hour, or starve. There is no practical business reason to cultivate loyalty for these types of jobs. That's the harsh truth. I admire your compassion, but you're not being realistic. I've done all kinds of jobs that were easily replaceable: farm hand, janitor, pizza delivery, dishwasher, busboy, short-order cook, alarm installation helper, roofing helper, local truck driver, security guard, etc., and I always knew that I was easily replaceable. Even in the more skilled positions I've had: police officer, auto mechanic, etc., I realized I was not as easily replaceable, but still dispensable. Even after becoming a software engineer and now a manager of 100+ engineers, I still realize I am not irreplaceable. Anyone who thinks they are and quits their job because of it is in for a rude awaking.
As an acquaintance of mine, a very successful small business owner who retired in his early 40s as a multi-millionaire, so eloquently put it: "Never compensate employees one penny more than needed to maintain a viable workforce".
In the meantime, nobody is starving, but business locations are closing shop and/or cutting hours leaving money from potential customers on the table because they have not invested in the human capital needed to complete the task that their customers demand.
I am admittedly not familiar with the steel business, so I welcome any insight you can provide. Are you saying that the guy who sweeps the floors or cleans the restrooms (both honest work - I've done both) deserve the same pay you, a manager, with much more responsibility?
No. I'm saying that if they work 40 hours a week in your business, they should make a living wage adjusted for your area that is above the poverty level. In the days when I was growing up, owners and managers made more money than hourly workers, but not tens and hundreds of times as much. Everyone who ever worked for me was paid more than a competitive wage. I hired the best people I could find for jobs and paid them enough that they could concentrate on their jobs rather than financial problems. I had several of them who had been with me for better than fifteen years when I retired.
1) Any idiot can flip a burger.
2) Almost any idiot can run a cash register
3) Not any idiot can be a shift leader
4) Even fewer idiots can be a general manager
5) Far fewer people are capable of being a franchisees
.
.
.
and so on. You get the point. Not sure what is so hard to understand. I'll make it as simple as possible. If any idiot can execute a job function successfully, said job function will be compensated accordingly (AKA: not a living wage, as it should be). I have flipped burgers for a living. I now manage 100+ software engineers. There is a world of difference between the two and the compensation reflects that difference.
They should have burger flippers walk in the shoes of a corporate employee for a couple of weeks. They will go home in tears every night. You simply have no idea.
As someone who's first job was a close to minimum wage job to now someone who makes almost 6 times as much, I can guarantee you it's the opposite.
I wouldn't be surprised if some of these office workers cry after a few days having to deal with the BS that many low paid workers have to deal with in the restaurant.
I had much more stress and BS to deal with working my first low paid job then my current job.
I see people talking about these older affluent republicans .... the same ones cheerleading Federal Reserve QE because it's pumping up their stock portfolios...greed of our species selling out the future to get more in the present.
They are no better than the people taking welfare and extended UE. Yes I've profited in the market also but I did not support blowing up more bubbles and making our overall future financial and cultural health worse just to benefit in the present.
In my opinion the people cheerleading QE have no real right to criticize those receiving extended UE or other government cheese because they both come from the same pool of government money...bonds the federal reserve purchased to prop everything up. That increasing national debt is just as much stock bubble as welfare check. They are one in the same.
Rents and homes are up because of both section 8 and large entities like Black rock sucking up supply.... Nobody wants to take your $12/job....call the whambulance. It's supply and demand. You want people, pay more. I agree the free market should determine the wage...so let it.
The main reason the media and government insult people's intelligence with these narratives is the same reason white collar people tend to look down upon burger flippers...they think their money and power makes them more intelligent and superior....it doesn't. To our leaders some blue collar office worker or IT guy making $150k is just another peon that needs to obey. That elitist attitude is normal behavior and works it's way up the food chain.
Now we have labor shortages...so supply and demand doesn't care about your elitism. Plus for all we know all these people choosing not to work might not be on welfare...some have made good money in cryptos and stocks, some have decided to live with their parents and take care of them as they get older as their job, living off their net worth. Some have side businesses or work for themselves. We spent years telling people not to be wage slaves. They listened.
Last edited by sholomar; 10-11-2021 at 03:05 AM..
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