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Old 10-15-2021, 06:17 PM
11,500 posts, read 6,199,814 times
Reputation: 13385


Originally Posted by Roderic View Post
Disclosure: Am a refugee from communism, an emigre to the US, a naturalized citizen, and a veteran. I was active duty when the Berlin Wall collapsed, the Soviet Union broke apart ignobly and spectacularly, and Desert Storm called, in that order.

I do not need anyone to instruct or even guide me to use what words to describe Marxism when I see matching behaviors. My life experience is enough. You can even argue that my life experience made me too biased against Marxism, but is that not the point of being informed, that of listening to the other side?

From my experience, defenders of Marxism are practically terrified at meeting people like me. We cut thru the bull5sh!t rhetoric put forth by those defenders of Marxism.
Why aren’t we listening more to people like this??! With REAL experience that most American can’t even imagine??
I have a friend who escaped decades ago from communist China — he is terrified of what he’s seeing
America become….
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Old 10-15-2021, 07:31 PM
1,371 posts, read 405,224 times
Reputation: 639
Originally Posted by Westerner92 View Post
There’s nothing to defend about Marxism. He was describing the phenomena of the French Revolution and the Revolutions of 1848 and extrapolating from there. Acknowledging the reality of class conflict in the modern world is Marxist. You, OP, and quite a few of the posters on this board use it as a catch-all word to equivocate any leftward political movement with communism, absolutely mangling the entire purpose of the word and strongly suggesting they are talking out their @ss.
Here is what Marx said...
From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs.
From that quote alone, we cannot interpret any directive for actions. It is actually a noble sentiment and in my opinion, it is Jesus-level.

So how do we implement it?

For fervent Marxists, we implement via force. It is for the greater good, not just for the immediate society but FOR THE WORLD. We must by force remove any and all things that would even hint at class differences between individuals. Or even the potential of creating the differences.

Capitalism creates the conditions for financial and social disparities. Remove it.

Living conditions can create the impression of class. Everyone lives the same way.

Cars can create the impression of class. Everyone drives the same car.

Dressing differently can create the impression of class. Everyone dress the same clothes.

And so on and on...

Do YOU really believe that Marxists have NEVER gone that far?

To be fair to the Karl Marx quote that we should not interpret any directive for actions. So to be fair to some people if they say 'Capitalism creates classism', we should not interpret that to be any directive for actions as well. But why not equate what they said to Marxism?

It is human nature to improve one's lot in life, and this includes one's family and kinship. If I worked harder to make my life easier, in essence, I have created a social disparity between myself and MANY members of society. I may not flaunt my greater wealth, but so what if I chose to flaunt it?

It is that 'so what' I posed that irks Marxists to no end. They may not advocate force but they are angered that I, along with other capitalists, chose to live better than our neighbors. Marxists are not angry that we capitalists worked harder, after all, Karl Marx did advised everyone to work to the best of their abilities. Rather, Marxists are angry that we capitalists exploit the excesses of our labor for selfish desires, such as a brand new leather instead of cloth sofa or an SUV instead of a 'green' car.

For now, the ideological options are binary, so if you are not for capitalism, what else can we attach to you but Marxist/socialist/communist? Parse out the details all you want but no matter how hard you work at the three labels and you may even find some daylight between each, you will never move any of the three labels closer to capitalism.

Originally Posted by Westerner92 View Post
If I wanted to be like you, I’d point out that accusing all your political dissenters of being communist is a fascist tactic. As part of a demographic that was included in the Holocaust, and also someone who knows how to dissect rhetoric, dog whistling crypto-fascists are practically terrified of meeting people like me. Hurr durrrrr
The problem for your criticism is that ideological binary state.

How about a Buddhist monk say: From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs, and it must remain internal to the self.

Sounds Buddha-like and enlightened, no?

But would that generate a political movement? Absolutely f(_)ck!ng NOT. And you know it.

The goal of any political movement is to create GOVERNMENTAL policies to support an ideology. So if all my political dissenters says similar things, not even calling for any governmental actions, what is wrong with lumping them all in the same ideological basket?
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Old 10-15-2021, 07:35 PM
Location: Suburb of Chicago
31,849 posts, read 17,133,414 times
Reputation: 29361
Originally Posted by MortalComeback View Post
That's the entire anti-CRT rhetoric in a nutshell:

Oh noes.....using the same tactic as the politicians and media use. The horror.

Ever hear the phrase fighting fire with fire? That's an example of it.
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