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But...I am not uninformed. I am a refugee from communism and I was active duty during the Cold War. In other words, my opinion and hatred of Marxism, and whatever derivatives, came from life experience as well as from literature.
Do you think that the Marxist/communist mobs that went on killing rampages in their countries are any more informed of Marx? Most of the Chinese who waved their little red book as they conducted revolutionary 'trials' could barely read what Mao and the Party assigned them. There are plenty of testimonies from East Germans who said they cared little for what their government said about Marx. Their obedience to their government came from fear, not ideological and moral respect, as one would expect of an educated citizenry. When in public and compelled, they parroted whatever the government want.
Do you think the North Koreans who gathered around their 'Great Leader' understands more than Americans about the tenets of Marx? When we say 'uninformed' we mean that to be 'informed' is to have listened to both sides. Before the advent of the Internet, how many democrats/capitalists were allowed in communist countries to offer their side of the story? Now look at US when Marx is taught in universities and even celebrated in the US Congress. Viktor Belenko, the MIG-25 pilot who defected with his jet to JPN in 1976, for a while was convinced that New York City was a CIA creation just for him. Belenko was not just a pilot but a MIG-25 pilot, meaning he was one step below cosmonaut status. He was crem de la creme of the Soviet state. Belenko and I are hardly 'uninformed'.
So growing up, you used Marxist and Communist interchangeably? That was never the case for me at least. Communism deserves all the hate it gets. I’ve just never seen the word Marxist thrown around as much or as flippantly as it is here. In my opinion, it just seems like a weird word to have latched onto in the past couple years, obscure enough that people can project whatever meaning they want onto it. If I were prone to conspiracy, I’d call it a “psy op”.
Are there tanks with Soviet flags rolling through the streets of D.C.?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roderic
But...I am not uninformed. I am a refugee from communism and I was active duty during the Cold War. In other words, my opinion and hatred of Marxism, and whatever derivatives, came from life experience as well as from literature.
Do you think that the Marxist/communist mobs that went on killing rampages in their countries are any more informed of Marx? Most of the Chinese who waved their little red book as they conducted revolutionary 'trials' could barely read what Mao and the Party assigned them. There are plenty of testimonies from East Germans who said they cared little for what their government said about Marx. Their obedience to their government came from fear, not ideological and moral respect, as one would expect of an educated citizenry. When in public and compelled, they parroted whatever the government want.
Do you think the North Koreans who gathered around their 'Great Leader' understands more than Americans about the tenets of Marx? When we say 'uninformed' we mean that to be 'informed' is to have listened to both sides. Before the advent of the Internet, how many democrats/capitalists were allowed in communist countries to offer their side of the story? Now look at US when Marx is taught in universities and even celebrated in the US Congress. Viktor Belenko, the MIG-25 pilot who defected with his jet to JPN in 1976, for a while was convinced that New York City was a CIA creation just for him. Belenko was not just a pilot but a MIG-25 pilot, meaning he was one step below cosmonaut status. He was crem de la creme of the Soviet state. Belenko and I are hardly 'uninformed'.
Excellent post. I would consider myself to be not exactly uninformed too. Nothing like you though.
I watched a video the other night that kinda illustrated communist Russia quite well, I thought. If I can find it I'll link it. It was about a military aircraft crash. It mentioned the sausage train.
So growing up, you used Marxist and Communist interchangeably? That was never the case for me at least. Communism deserves all the hate it gets. I’ve just never seen the word Marxist thrown around as much or as flippantly as it is here. In my opinion, it just seems like a weird word to have latched onto in the past couple years, obscure enough that people can project whatever meaning they want onto it. If I were prone to conspiracy, I’d call it a “psy op”.
I read enough, not all, of Marxist 'scholars', using the word generously, to filter out the basic: Marxism is the foundation and communism is the application.
If you are an electrical engineer, you do not design the PCB layout with math from torsion and shear forces. A communist is a Marxist. A socialist is a Marxist. A socialist-democrat and a democratic-socialist are just misleading flavors of Marxism. A socialist-democrat and a democratic-socialist exist only when Marxists are not in the majority to be able to use the coercive power and potential violence of the government to enforce their Marxist beliefs.
In many ways, I miss the Germans I met when I was active duty during the Cold War yrs. Our squadron flew with the Luftwaffe in several NATO exercises. Given what they went thru, WW II and the partition of their country, they were no nonsense, intolerant of BS, and it showed in their speech. They did not hesitate to call their ancestors fascists and communists as Marxists.
I read enough, not all, of Marxist 'scholars', using the word generously, to filter out the basic: Marxism is the foundation and communism is the application.
If you are an electrical engineer, you do not design the PCB layout with math from torsion and shear forces. A communist is a Marxist. A socialist is a Marxist. A socialist-democrat and a democratic-socialist are just misleading flavors of Marxism. A socialist-democrat and a democratic-socialist exist only when Marxists are not in the majority to be able to use the coercive power and potential violence of the government to enforce their Marxist beliefs.
In many ways, I miss the Germans I met when I was active duty during the Cold War yrs. Our squadron flew with the Luftwaffe in several NATO exercises. Given what they went thru, WW II and the partition of their country, they were no nonsense, intolerant of BS, and it showed in their speech. They did not hesitate to call their ancestors fascists and communists as Marxists.
That’s three paragraphs to say “no”. The past couple years have seen the sudden rise of “Marxist” because right wing media pundits know that they can’t cry wolf with “communist” anymore and need a new dog whistle. Left wingers enforcing rules you don’t like isn’t “Marxist” anymore than right wingers enforcing rules lefties don’t like is “fascist”.
Last edited by Westerner92; 10-15-2021 at 07:30 AM..
This is what I've been saying, Burdell. It's them against, ALL of us. We need to stop the infighting and start going after the real enemies here. It's not you, or me. It's THEM. The people screwing us on both sides of the aisle and running this country into the ground.
I'm on board with this also but find people so firmly entrenched in their side, they actually enjoy the fighting more than joining forces to overcome a major problem. This really needs to stop. At this critical juncture, can't we admit we need each other to defeat something bigger than we've ever seen in our lifetimes.
I'm on board with this also but find people so firmly entrenched in their side, they actually enjoy the fighting more than joining forces to overcome a major problem. This really needs to stop. At this critical juncture, can't we admit we need each other to defeat something bigger than we've ever seen in our lifetimes.
I have hope. Some people are seeing this now. This left vs right is a ploy used by our politicians and the (state run) media to keep us busy focused on, and fighting with, one another, so we don't pay any attention to what they're doing.
EVERYONE should be upset by all of our politicians. Look at how much of our tax payer dollars are sent to other countries for NONSENSE. Why aren't our dollars being spent in our country to make our lives better? Our schools, our roads and bridges, our water systems? Why do so many people still not have internet access given all the taxes our government collects? It's insane.
And their attitude? 'We feed them.' We should be on these elitist snobs 24/7, and looking for average Joe's to take their place. Get rid of them all.
I read enough, not all, of Marxist 'scholars', using the word generously, to filter out the basic: Marxism is the foundation and communism is the application.
If you are an electrical engineer, you do not design the PCB layout with math from torsion and shear forces. A communist is a Marxist. A socialist is a Marxist. A socialist-democrat and a democratic-socialist are just misleading flavors of Marxism. A socialist-democrat and a democratic-socialist exist only when Marxists are not in the majority to be able to use the coercive power and potential violence of the government to enforce their Marxist beliefs.
In many ways, I miss the Germans I met when I was active duty during the Cold War yrs. Our squadron flew with the Luftwaffe in several NATO exercises. Given what they went thru, WW II and the partition of their country, they were no nonsense, intolerant of BS, and it showed in their speech. They did not hesitate to call their ancestors fascists and communists as Marxists.
Exactly! All of these leftist complaining people calling them Marxists, while this because Marxism is the root of socialism and communism, which the left clearly advocate for today. The majority no longer seem to be liberals but leftists. Marx literally said the only solution to capitalism was communism. It does not get any clearer than that that his philosophies underpin socialism and communism. I will even give him credit that he started out with the right idea, that is that working conditions were very poor for many people and needed to improve. His solution, on the other hand, was atrocious and brought far more pain, destruction, poverty, elitism, worse working conditions, and death than anything capitalism has done. His “solution” of socialism and communism did the exact opposite of what he thought it would anywhere in the world is has been tried.
Exactly! All of these leftist complaining people calling them Marxists, while this because Marxism is the root of socialism and communism, which the left clearly advocate for today. The majority no longer seem to be liberals but leftists. Marx literally said the only solution to capitalism was communism. It does not get any clearer than that that his philosophies underpin socialism and communism. I will even give him credit that he started out with the right idea, that is that working conditions were very poor for many people and needed to improve. His solution, on the other hand, was atrocious and brought far more pain, destruction, poverty, elitism, worse working conditions, and death than anything capitalism has done. His “solution” of socialism and communism did the exact opposite of what he thought it would anywhere in the world is has been tried.
Marx didn’t advocate for a solution so much as follow industrial technology to its philosophical conclusion. If the gains from technology are not shared with the masses to a certain extent, they’ll revolt. That would be true even if Marx never wrote a word. That would be true regardless of how moral or beneficial said revolts are. Even the most hardcore of capitalists acknowledges this.
Vaxxine mandates, rising cost of living, borders open, determination to prevent voter integrity, CRT in many schools, protesting parents or domestic terrorists, gender studies, redefinition of words, white rage, cancel culture, summer of love, antifa, BLM, MSM controlled by the left, ....
Maybe not all those things have hit your town yet but some of them have. I thought we were safe in New Zealand, only to discover we are being hit right here at home! We have a left wing liberal government and they have already silenced the press. they are busy segregating the population aka apartheid, giving the country over to a small minority, forcing gender crazy onto us - it's already in our schools! When I fill out an official form, it askes for my self identified gender! (I will be answering with 'attack helicopter' in future).
What the heck does any of that have to do with Marxism?
Marx saw the world in terms of class struggle: the conflict between the capitalist class (bourgeoisie) and the working class (proletariat).
Looks like some folks are late to the party.
This overthrow of the Republic has been in the works since the 30's. The book, "The Great Society" outlines it all.
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