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Old 11-02-2021, 01:24 PM
 
21,826 posts, read 9,386,613 times
Reputation: 19325

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Quote:
Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220 View Post
I earn almost twice that $50k figure and I'm a Democrat, so there goes your poll, whoops
Wow. That statement says a lot about your intellect.
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Old 11-02-2021, 01:26 PM
 
Location: Connecticut
3,730 posts, read 1,313,872 times
Reputation: 3486
Quote:
Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220 View Post
You're clueless on this issue, and I'm not a Socialist

Hah! Other way around bud, other way around. And you're definitely a Socialist.
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Old 11-02-2021, 01:47 PM
 
Location: Long Island
32,816 posts, read 19,431,094 times
Reputation: 9618
Quote:
Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220 View Post
Any rich Canadian, middle class Canadians have no interest in our Healthcare system
and why is that...because the rich Canadians CAN, and WILL travel to the US for the better care, while the middleclass and poor Canadians don't have that option


actually our results are better than most other countries




France, Canada, Germany, and England have WORSE OUTCOMES of treatment and diagnosis

Frances health care system is BROKE, as in out of money


German system is losing money like a colander..so much that the chancellor her self said they have to cut care or else



we know, American health care costs more.....


American health care has better results too







we have 330 million population

we spend massively, because we atleast address the problems

we have millions that have diabetes...other country dont diagnose as much as we do

we have millions that have monocular degeneration (blindness) other countries dont fully treat as well as we do

its the same with most thing...look at the numbers we (the usa) has a better 'treatment' record (life after diagnoses) than all other countries.

1: Americans have better survival rates than Europeans for common cancers. Breast cancer mortality is 52 percent higher in Germany than in the United States, and 88 percent higher in the United Kingdom. Prostate cancer mortality is 604 percent higher in the U.K. and 457 percent higher in Norway. The mortality rate for colorectal cancer among British men and women is about 40 percent higher.

2: Americans have lower cancer mortality rates than Canadians. Breast cancer mortality is 9 percent higher, prostate cancer is 184 percent higher and colon cancer mortality among men is about 10 percent higher than in the United States.

3: Americans have better access to treatment for chronic diseases than patients in other developed countries. Some 56 percent of Americans who could benefit
are taking statins, which reduce cholesterol and protect against heart disease. By comparison, of those patients who could benefit from these drugs, only 36 percent of the Dutch, 29 percent of the Swiss, 26 percent of Germans, 23 percent of Britons and 17 percent of Italians receive them.

4: Americans have better access to preventive cancer screening than Canadians. Take the proportion of the appropriate-age population groups who have received recommended tests for breast, cervical, prostate and colon cancer:

Nine of 10 middle-aged American women (89 percent) have had a mammogram, compared to less than three-fourths of Canadians (72 percent).
Nearly all American women (96 percent) have had a pap smear, compared to less than 90 percent of Canadians.
More than half of American men (54 percent) have had a PSA test, compared to less than 1 in 6 Canadians (16 percent).
Nearly one-third of Americans (30 percent) have had a colonoscopy, compared with less than 1 in 20 Canadians (5 percent).

5: Lower income Americans are in better health than comparable Canadians. Twice as many American seniors with below-median incomes self-report "excellent" health compared to Canadian seniors (11.7 percent versus 5.8 percent). Conversely, white Canadian young adults with below-median incomes are 20 percent more likely than lower income Americans to describe their health as "fair or poor."

6: Americans spend less time waiting for care than patients in Canada and the U.K. Canadian and British patients wait about twice as long - sometimes more than a year - to see a specialist, to have elective surgery like hip replacements or to get radiation treatment for cancer. All told, 827,429 people are waiting for some type of procedure in Canada. In England, nearly 1.8 million people are waiting for a hospital admission or outpatient treatment.

7: People in countries with more government control of health care are highly dissatisfied and believe reform is needed. More than 70 percent of German, Canadian, Australian, New Zealand and British adults say their health system needs either "fundamental change" or "complete rebuilding."

8: Americans are more satisfied with the care they receive than Canadians. When asked about their own health care instead of the "health care system," more than half of Americans (51.3 percent) are very satisfied with their health care services, compared to only 41.5 percent of Canadians; a lower proportion of Americans are dissatisfied (6.8 percent) than Canadians (8.5 percent).

9: Americans have much better access to important new technologies like medical imaging than patients in Canada or the U.K. Maligned as a waste by economists and policymakers naïve to actual medical practice, an overwhelming majority of leading American physicians identified computerized tomography (CT) and magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) as the most important medical innovations for improving patient care during the previous decade. The United States has 34 CT scanners per million Americans, compared to 12 in Canada and eight in Britain. The United States has nearly 27 MRI machines per million compared to about 6 per million in Canada and Britain.

Fact No. 10: Americans are responsible for the vast majority of all health care innovations. The top five U.S. hospitals conduct more clinical trials than all the hospitals in any other single developed country.[14] Since the mid-1970s, the Nobel Prize in medicine or physiology has gone to American residents more often than recipients from all other countries combined. In only five of the past 34 years did a scientist living in America not win or share in the prize. Most important recent medical innovations were developed in the United States.

Conclusion. , the U.S. health care system compares MORE favorably to those in other developed countries

http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/sec...pe-and-canada/



================================================

If healthcare costs less in Germany, then why does Germany have to ration?
Healthcare costs less, but Germany can't give you the medication you need, because they can't afford to buy it.


yes we spend a lot on healthcare...but we also have the BEST RECORDS of health.........



our outcomes (diagnosis and TREATMENT, and RECOVERY) is some of the BEST in the world
a) we rank in the top 10 of RECOVERY from cancer


b)American women have a 63 percent chance of living at least five years after a cancer diagnosis, compared to 56 percent for European women.
c)American men have a five-year survival rate of 66 percent — compared to only 47 percent for European men.
d)Among European countries, only Sweden has an overall survival rate for men of more than 60 percent.
e)For women, only three European countries (Sweden, Belgium and Switzerland) have an overall survival rate of more than 60 percent.

that is the ranking of care available to all Americans, not just those with private health coverage. Great Britain, known for its 50-year-old government-run, universal health care system, fares worse than the European average: British men have a five-year survival rate of only 45 percent; women, only 53 percent.


--------------------------------------------------------------------


how about a comparison to Canada???

a)For women, the average survival rate for all cancers is 61 percent in the United States, compared to 58 percent in Canada.

b)For men, the average survival rate for all cancers is 57 percent in the United States, compared to 53 percent in Canada.


In the United States, 85 percent of women aged 25 to 64 years have regular PAP smears, compared with 58 percent in Great Britain. The same is true for mammograms; in the United States, 84 percent of women aged 50 to 64 years get them regularly — a higher percentage than in Australia, Canada or New Zealand, and far higher than the 63 percent of British women.







which country has the highest cancer rate (cases not recovery)...Denmark..they are the SICKEST (in terms of cancer) in the world
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Old 11-02-2021, 01:49 PM
 
Location: Live:Downtown Phoenix, AZ/Work:Greater Los Angeles, CA
27,606 posts, read 14,527,197 times
Reputation: 9169
Quote:
Originally Posted by DK736 View Post
Hah! Other way around bud, other way around. And you're definitely a Socialist.
No, as I don't advocate for the government to run all industry, that's socialism. Learn your definitions. I advocate for Capitalism with redistribution and a generous safety net
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Old 11-02-2021, 01:51 PM
 
Location: Live:Downtown Phoenix, AZ/Work:Greater Los Angeles, CA
27,606 posts, read 14,527,197 times
Reputation: 9169
Quote:
Originally Posted by workingclasshero View Post
and why is that...because the rich Canadians CAN, and WILL travel to the US for the better care, while the middleclass and poor Canadians don't have that option


actually our results are better than most other countries




France, Canada, Germany, and England have WORSE OUTCOMES of treatment and diagnosis

Frances health care system is BROKE, as in out of money


German system is losing money like a colander..so much that the chancellor her self said they have to cut care or else



we know, American health care costs more.....


American health care has better results too







we have 330 million population

we spend massively, because we atleast address the problems

we have millions that have diabetes...other country dont diagnose as much as we do

we have millions that have monocular degeneration (blindness) other countries dont fully treat as well as we do

its the same with most thing...look at the numbers we (the usa) has a better 'treatment' record (life after diagnoses) than all other countries.

1: Americans have better survival rates than Europeans for common cancers. Breast cancer mortality is 52 percent higher in Germany than in the United States, and 88 percent higher in the United Kingdom. Prostate cancer mortality is 604 percent higher in the U.K. and 457 percent higher in Norway. The mortality rate for colorectal cancer among British men and women is about 40 percent higher.

2: Americans have lower cancer mortality rates than Canadians. Breast cancer mortality is 9 percent higher, prostate cancer is 184 percent higher and colon cancer mortality among men is about 10 percent higher than in the United States.

3: Americans have better access to treatment for chronic diseases than patients in other developed countries. Some 56 percent of Americans who could benefit
are taking statins, which reduce cholesterol and protect against heart disease. By comparison, of those patients who could benefit from these drugs, only 36 percent of the Dutch, 29 percent of the Swiss, 26 percent of Germans, 23 percent of Britons and 17 percent of Italians receive them.

4: Americans have better access to preventive cancer screening than Canadians. Take the proportion of the appropriate-age population groups who have received recommended tests for breast, cervical, prostate and colon cancer:

Nine of 10 middle-aged American women (89 percent) have had a mammogram, compared to less than three-fourths of Canadians (72 percent).
Nearly all American women (96 percent) have had a pap smear, compared to less than 90 percent of Canadians.
More than half of American men (54 percent) have had a PSA test, compared to less than 1 in 6 Canadians (16 percent).
Nearly one-third of Americans (30 percent) have had a colonoscopy, compared with less than 1 in 20 Canadians (5 percent).

5: Lower income Americans are in better health than comparable Canadians. Twice as many American seniors with below-median incomes self-report "excellent" health compared to Canadian seniors (11.7 percent versus 5.8 percent). Conversely, white Canadian young adults with below-median incomes are 20 percent more likely than lower income Americans to describe their health as "fair or poor."

6: Americans spend less time waiting for care than patients in Canada and the U.K. Canadian and British patients wait about twice as long - sometimes more than a year - to see a specialist, to have elective surgery like hip replacements or to get radiation treatment for cancer. All told, 827,429 people are waiting for some type of procedure in Canada. In England, nearly 1.8 million people are waiting for a hospital admission or outpatient treatment.

7: People in countries with more government control of health care are highly dissatisfied and believe reform is needed. More than 70 percent of German, Canadian, Australian, New Zealand and British adults say their health system needs either "fundamental change" or "complete rebuilding."

8: Americans are more satisfied with the care they receive than Canadians. When asked about their own health care instead of the "health care system," more than half of Americans (51.3 percent) are very satisfied with their health care services, compared to only 41.5 percent of Canadians; a lower proportion of Americans are dissatisfied (6.8 percent) than Canadians (8.5 percent).

9: Americans have much better access to important new technologies like medical imaging than patients in Canada or the U.K. Maligned as a waste by economists and policymakers naïve to actual medical practice, an overwhelming majority of leading American physicians identified computerized tomography (CT) and magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) as the most important medical innovations for improving patient care during the previous decade. The United States has 34 CT scanners per million Americans, compared to 12 in Canada and eight in Britain. The United States has nearly 27 MRI machines per million compared to about 6 per million in Canada and Britain.

Fact No. 10: Americans are responsible for the vast majority of all health care innovations. The top five U.S. hospitals conduct more clinical trials than all the hospitals in any other single developed country.[14] Since the mid-1970s, the Nobel Prize in medicine or physiology has gone to American residents more often than recipients from all other countries combined. In only five of the past 34 years did a scientist living in America not win or share in the prize. Most important recent medical innovations were developed in the United States.

Conclusion. , the U.S. health care system compares MORE favorably to those in other developed countries

http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/sec...pe-and-canada/



================================================

If healthcare costs less in Germany, then why does Germany have to ration?
Healthcare costs less, but Germany can't give you the medication you need, because they can't afford to buy it.


yes we spend a lot on healthcare...but we also have the BEST RECORDS of health.........



our outcomes (diagnosis and TREATMENT, and RECOVERY) is some of the BEST in the world
a) we rank in the top 10 of RECOVERY from cancer


b)American women have a 63 percent chance of living at least five years after a cancer diagnosis, compared to 56 percent for European women.
c)American men have a five-year survival rate of 66 percent — compared to only 47 percent for European men.
d)Among European countries, only Sweden has an overall survival rate for men of more than 60 percent.
e)For women, only three European countries (Sweden, Belgium and Switzerland) have an overall survival rate of more than 60 percent.

that is the ranking of care available to all Americans, not just those with private health coverage. Great Britain, known for its 50-year-old government-run, universal health care system, fares worse than the European average: British men have a five-year survival rate of only 45 percent; women, only 53 percent.


--------------------------------------------------------------------


how about a comparison to Canada???

a)For women, the average survival rate for all cancers is 61 percent in the United States, compared to 58 percent in Canada.

b)For men, the average survival rate for all cancers is 57 percent in the United States, compared to 53 percent in Canada.


In the United States, 85 percent of women aged 25 to 64 years have regular PAP smears, compared with 58 percent in Great Britain. The same is true for mammograms; in the United States, 84 percent of women aged 50 to 64 years get them regularly — a higher percentage than in Australia, Canada or New Zealand, and far higher than the 63 percent of British women.







which country has the highest cancer rate (cases not recovery)...Denmark..they are the SICKEST (in terms of cancer) in the world
Newsflash, the US leads the world in medical bankruptcy. We have great results, but the cost is too much for all but the wealthy, even with insurance
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Old 11-02-2021, 02:02 PM
 
8,181 posts, read 2,771,041 times
Reputation: 6016
Quote:
Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220 View Post
No, as I don't advocate for the government to run all industry, that's socialism. Learn your definitions. I advocate for Capitalism with redistribution and a generous safety net
Feel free to redistribute your own income and assets. But stop insisting everyone be forced to do the same.
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Old 11-02-2021, 02:10 PM
 
21,826 posts, read 9,386,613 times
Reputation: 19325
Quote:
Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220 View Post
Nobody pays over a 50% effective rate, do you know how graduated taxes work?.....
Mmmm...not true if you add in state taxes and city taxes in places like NYC.
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Old 11-02-2021, 02:13 PM
 
Location: Long Island
32,816 posts, read 19,431,094 times
Reputation: 9618
Quote:
Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220 View Post
Newsflash, the US leads the world in medical bankruptcy. We have great results, but the cost is too much for all but the wealthy, even with insurance
news flash we lead the world in bankruptcies


the number one reason for bankruptcy is poor financial management


and please stop with the medical bankruptcy BS


Quote:
another liberal lie.. a study that was debunked

the harvard study, first made in a 2005 Health Affairs article, is at variance with four decades of economic research, including a finding that even large medical bills have no impact on family living standards.
The paper by David Himmelstein, Elizabeth Warren, Deborah Thorne, and Steffie Woolhandler was published as a Health Affairs web exclusive. The authors are strong proponents of government run health care.

The data comes from 1,250 personal bankruptcy cases, assumed to be representative of the almost 1.5 million households that filed for bankruptcy in 2001. The data on each bankruptcy were abstracted from court records and supplemented with 931 telephone interviews. The paper's conclusions about illnesses in households were based on medical interviews conducted with 391 people. The paper does not specify how those people were selected. It does say that Himmelstein and Woolhandler (H & W), both MDs, coded the diagnoses given by debtors into the categories used for the analysis.

The classifications used to determine a medical bankruptcy were odd. Only 28.3 percent of the sample cited self-reported illness or injury as a cause of bankruptcy. However, H & W managed to almost double that figure (to 54.5 percent) by counting the following as "illnesses":

•1. A birth or addition of a new family member
•2. A death in a family
•3. A drug or alcohol addiction
•4. Uncontrolled gambling
•5. Loss of at least 2 weeks of work-related income due to illness or injury by anyone in the household
•6. Out-of-pocket medical bills of $1,000 in the two years before filing by anyone in the household
•7. Mortgaging a home to pay medical bills.
In a 2005 article in the Northwestern University Law Review, Prof. Todd J. Zywicki called the $1,000 threshold for contributing medical debt "indefensible." That's an understatement.


****By H & W criteria, a bankruptcy with $50,000 in student loans and $1,001 in unpaid medical bills would be classified as a "medical bankruptcy." Moreover, the average U.S. household had out-of-pocket expenses of $2,182 in 2001!

In a 2006 review (gated) of the H & W study results in Health Affairs, David Dranove and Michael L. Millenson:

•Recalculate the medical bankruptcy rate using the data given in the H & W paper. They conclude that just 17 percent of the H & W sample "had medical expenditure bankruptcies," although it cannot be stated "with any degree of certainty whether medical spending was the most important cause of bankruptcy."
•Explain that "four decades of studies have addressed the bankruptcy-medical spending connection" and that the results from those studies are much closer to their 17 percent estimate than to the 54.5 percent estimates of H & W.
•Cite a 2002 Fay, Hurst, and White American Economic Review study, which found no statistical link between bankruptcies and health problems.
•Cite a 1999 Domowitz and Sartain Journal of Finance study, which found that high medical debt raised the probability of bankruptcy for the tiny proportion of the population that had high medical debt, but that at the margin, credit cards were the largest single contribution to bankruptcy.
Moreover, Helen Levy in an Economic Research Initiative on the Uninsured working paper estimated the effect of being diagnosed with a serious new health condition, (cancer, diabetes, heart attack, chronic lung disease, or stroke) and found that household consumption "remains smooth" in the face of serious health shocks for both insured and uninsured households.


YET:
A study by the Department of Justice examined more than 5,000 bankruptcy cases . It found that 54% of bankruptcies involve no medical debt, and more than 90% have medical debt of less than $5,000. Even among the minority of bankruptcies that report medical debt, only a few have enough to cause personal bankruptcy.










and every single one of those other countries is facing health system BANKRUPTCY and are doing major CUTS in their services....Canada is pushing toward PRIVATIZATION, France is in a major hole, Greece is well you've seen the news. Britain is cutting services, Germany too

Last edited by workingclasshero; 11-02-2021 at 03:17 PM..
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Old 11-02-2021, 02:15 PM
 
21,826 posts, read 9,386,613 times
Reputation: 19325
Quote:
Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220 View Post
I'm not a socialist. I don't advocate for the state to take over all industry. Learn the definitions of terms you use
This is just classic leftist. We all know we are talking about wealth redistribution here.
You all do the same thing with CRT. Just because the teacher doesn't hand out a syllabus with CRT at the top doesn't mean they aren't teaching it. I assure you that they are.
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Old 11-02-2021, 02:16 PM
 
21,826 posts, read 9,386,613 times
Reputation: 19325
Quote:
Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220 View Post
That's the wrong term as well. I'm a Social Democrat, I advocate government similar to what the Scandinavian countries have, Capitalism with a welfare state (and single payer healthcare)
Does Scandinavia have open borders?
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