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Old 10-29-2021, 07:08 PM
 
45,539 posts, read 27,146,343 times
Reputation: 23852

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freak80 View Post
Our economic system automatically transfers value from the poor to the rich. The poor are forced to sell their labor to the rich at discount price because of the unequal bargaining power between labor and capital.

Progressive taxes and social programs try to balance this out by transferring some of the captured labor value back to the poor.
Discount price? Who sets pricing for labor?

Doesn't it matter what the labor is? You can't pay a mail room clerk the same as an engineer.

Taxes should not be used for behavioral adjustments IMO. I include 501c3 church groups with that in case you are going there. And yes I do use the deductions - just to get ALL of the questions out of the way. It would be stupid not to. If I could wave a wand and make them all go away, I would.
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Old 10-29-2021, 07:13 PM
 
10,072 posts, read 7,753,009 times
Reputation: 8551
Quote:
Originally Posted by saltine View Post
When I can pay for your everything, childcare food rent health schooling etc? Where TF does it stop?
What makes me mad is paying for illegals who shouldn't be here in the first place. They get better benefits than American citizens.


Why should I pay for kids that people have that can't afford them. No one pays for anything for me. It's aggravating. That's why I wish we could choose where our taxes so. I'm all for roads and bridges and things like that.
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Old 10-29-2021, 07:14 PM
 
Location: *
13,242 posts, read 4,919,031 times
Reputation: 3461
Quote:
Originally Posted by albert648 View Post
The leftists want to take everything you own and then some to give to bums who won't even put in the small effort of going out and getting a job.

IMO government tax revenue should never exceed 5% of GDP and should be cut whenever GDP excluding government expenditure drops.
The long story short version answer to why some American people have unreasonable complaints about taxes & government interference is simply that some American people are apparently unaware of the fact that American styled libertarianism is a marginal idea:
Wagner’s law: “One development that people both on the Left and the Right are unaware of is almost an inexorable force that leads affluent societies to devote increasing amounts of their wealth to social spending, to redistribution to children, to education, to healthcare, to supporting the poor, to supporting the aged.”
Until the 20th century, most societies devoted about 1.5% of their GDP to social spending, and generally much less than that. In the last 100 years, that’s changed: today the current global median of social spending is 22% of GDP.

Social spending is a shared value, as the free market has no way to provide for poor children, the elderly, & other members of society who cannot contribute to the marketplace. As countries develop, they naturally initiate social spending programs.

More here:

https://bigthink.com/videos/steven-p...source=Twitter

It's not a coincidence the number of libertarian paradises in the world i.e., developed states with no substantial social spending, is zero.
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Old 10-29-2021, 07:51 PM
 
8,181 posts, read 2,787,958 times
Reputation: 6016
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest View Post
The long story short version answer to why some American people have unreasonable complaints about taxes & government interference is simply that some American people are apparently unaware of the fact that American styled libertarianism is a marginal idea:
Wagner’s law: “One development that people both on the Left and the Right are unaware of is almost an inexorable force that leads affluent societies to devote increasing amounts of their wealth to social spending, to redistribution to children, to education, to healthcare, to supporting the poor, to supporting the aged.”
Until the 20th century, most societies devoted about 1.5% of their GDP to social spending, and generally much less than that. In the last 100 years, that’s changed: today the current global median of social spending is 22% of GDP.

Social spending is a shared value, as the free market has no way to provide for poor children, the elderly, & other members of society who cannot contribute to the marketplace. As countries develop, they naturally initiate social spending programs.

More here:

https://bigthink.com/videos/steven-p...source=Twitter

It's not a coincidence the number of libertarian paradises in the world i.e., developed states with no substantial social spending, is zero.
5% of GDP is more than enough to fund social spending.

And yes, everyone needs to pay into the system if we're going to have a welfare state. We need 80+% paying in and 10% drawing from the system, NOT 50+% drawing from the system and at most 50% paying in. That's not sustainable.
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Old 10-29-2021, 07:56 PM
 
3,325 posts, read 1,959,538 times
Reputation: 3349
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
It would be more efficient if every adult tax payer sponsored an unfortunate person on our own and just left the government out of it.
But this would cut democrats out of the tax and spend gravy train and they would then have no reason to exist.
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Old 10-29-2021, 08:00 PM
 
8,181 posts, read 2,787,958 times
Reputation: 6016
Quote:
Originally Posted by enraeh View Post
But this would cut democrats out of the tax and spend gravy train and they would then have no reason to exist.
This. AOC bitching and moaning about how her Abuela lives in a hovel with a leaking ceiling was absolutely vile.

Alexandria, what did YOU do to fix the problem? She's YOUR grandmother. Hire a contractor to fix it. There's no reason you can't afford it on your congressional salary.
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Old 10-29-2021, 08:03 PM
 
11,988 posts, read 5,288,468 times
Reputation: 7284
Quote:
Originally Posted by sub View Post
It’s about restraint and knowing when to say when.
It has nothing to do with being civilized.
The headline top is “why do I pay for anything”, not everything.

It indicated that he resented paying taxes for anything at all. That's why I responded as I did. There are costs associated with being a member of a modern society.
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Old 10-29-2021, 08:11 PM
 
11,988 posts, read 5,288,468 times
Reputation: 7284
Quote:
Originally Posted by FatBob96 View Post
And exactly how much of my money do you expect to take from me and expect me to remain "civilized"?
The question was “why do I day for anything”? It inferred that he was unwilling to pay taxes for anything. Unless you find your own desert island or a Ted Kaczynski style cabin in the middle of nowhere, you’re going to have to contribute towards the cost of construction and maintenance of roads, etc. That’s the price of civilization.
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Old 10-29-2021, 08:15 PM
 
Location: A Beautiful DEEP RED State
5,632 posts, read 1,766,909 times
Reputation: 3902
Quote:
Originally Posted by saltine View Post
When I can pay for your everything, childcare food rent health schooling etc? Where TF does it stop?
I believe it was in Portland or some place as bad, they wanted people to give up their homes to them.
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Old 10-29-2021, 08:33 PM
 
Location: *
13,242 posts, read 4,919,031 times
Reputation: 3461
Quote:
Originally Posted by albert648 View Post
5% of GDP is more than enough to fund social spending.

And yes, everyone needs to pay into the system if we're going to have a welfare state. We need 80+% paying in and 10% drawing from the system, NOT 50+% drawing from the system and at most 50% paying in. That's not sustainable.
Personally, I call bs.
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